Gwlad Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Palfy said: Good I hate red Well yes on one level but proud Lancastrian, me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Bailey said: At least that's sorted then. He could be a world class centre back but only a Championship midfielder. Who would have thought. Ffs bailey let it fookin go.... I said this:- I think the point is he started as a midfielder and with his attributes he is able to play there to a high level despite having spent his recent development as a centre half. Many norwich fans and pundits think he could be a top class DM. He was outstanding for Shrewsbury as a DM and York. Danny Murphy spent 5 minutes speaking glowingly on talksport as to how he think he could play 3 positions equally as well. ... Centre half, full back or midfield. Put the shovel away. I knew naff all about him but found out a fair bit in a short time - maybe you should have done that instead of arguing that top centre halves can't be top midfielders and vice versa. Ffs Ruud Gullit played one of the best games I've seen at Goodison as a centre half. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StevO Posted October 5, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 58 minutes ago, Hafnia said: Ffs bailey let it fookin go.... Jesus! Even you must see the irony (hypocrisy) in that Haf?! Matt, London Blue, Hafnia and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 16 hours ago, Hafnia said: Ffs bailey let it fookin go.... I said this:- I think the point is he started as a midfielder and with his attributes he is able to play there to a high level despite having spent his recent development as a centre half. Many norwich fans and pundits think he could be a top class DM. He was outstanding for Shrewsbury as a DM and York. Danny Murphy spent 5 minutes speaking glowingly on talksport as to how he think he could play 3 positions equally as well. ... Centre half, full back or midfield. Put the shovel away. I knew naff all about him but found out a fair bit in a short time - maybe you should have done that instead of arguing that top centre halves can't be top midfielders and vice versa. Ffs Ruud Gullit played one of the best games I've seen at Goodison as a centre half. I was just winding you up! My view is my view and nothing you have said has changed that. There still hasn't been one example of a top centre half who has gone on to be a top central midfielder, at least not in the modern era. I am not arguing that top midfielders can't go on to be top centre halves however most of them are midfielders at a lower level or youth level in any event, but I do not dispute that there are a few of those and never have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Bailey said: I was just winding you up! My view is my view and nothing you have said has changed that. There still hasn't been one example of a top centre half who has gone on to be a top central midfielder, at least not in the modern era. I am not arguing that top midfielders can't go on to be top centre halves however most of them are midfielders at a lower level or youth level in any event, but I do not dispute that there are a few of those and never have. Gareth Barry. The fact is most go midfield to centre half as it is common sense to allow for loss of pace as they get older. The other fact of the matter in this is that nearly all players that play both positions go on at the top level for a greater period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 11 minutes ago, Hafnia said: Gareth Barry. The fact is most go midfield to centre half as it is common sense to allow for loss of pace as they get older. The other fact of the matter in this is that nearly all players that play both positions go on at the top level for a greater period of time. Wasn’t he a left-back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 In the short spell Holgate had, he showed he could play midfield very well. Hafnia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: Wasn’t he a left-back? He played there too but was centre half as a 3 with Southgate and eghiogu. Seems to be a lot of similarities with Godfrey, Godfrey got real pace though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 Tony Hibbert was a striker. Does that help anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Shukes Posted October 6, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 10 minutes ago, StevO said: Tony Hibbert was a striker. Does that help anyone? Jordan Pickford was a goalkeeper before he came here! Hafnia, AlbanyNYToffee, Bailey and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 23 minutes ago, StevO said: Tony Hibbert was a striker. Does that help anyone? He was the Scouse cafu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 5 hours ago, Hafnia said: Gareth Barry. The fact is most go midfield to centre half as it is common sense to allow for loss of pace as they get older. The other fact of the matter in this is that nearly all players that play both positions go on at the top level for a greater period of time. He made 10 appearances at centre half. He wasn't a top centre half. Although on balance I would say he was probably capable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 3 hours ago, StevO said: Tony Hibbert was a striker. Does that help anyone? And DCL was a RWB for us under koeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Bailey said: He made 10 appearances at centre half. He wasn't a top centre half. Although on balance I would say he was probably capable. Talking utter crap now Bailey. He played centre half in the 2000 fa cup final.... id say that's a capable level for a 19/20 year old. Made his debut in 98, played near 70 games up til that stage.... With Southgate band Ugo Southgate rated him as the best young centre half he had seen. Made his England debut at left back.... Alan Wright told me himself he had everything bar pace but didn't need it - was the best player at villa even before he went to midfield. We could go into the realm of James milner and discuss his someone can play attacking mid, centre mid, right wing, fight back, defensive mid to a ridiculous level... Id sooner leave it at Barry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Hafnia said: Talking utter crap now Bailey. He played centre half in the 2000 fa cup final.... id say that's a capable level for a 19/20 year old. Made his debut in 98, played near 70 games up til that stage.... With Southgate band Ugo Southgate rated him as the best young centre half he had seen. Made his England debut at left back.... Alan Wright told me himself he had everything bar pace but didn't need it - was the best player at villa even before he went to midfield. We could go into the realm of James milner and discuss his someone can play attacking mid, centre mid, right wing, fight back, defensive mid to a ridiculous level... Id sooner leave it at Barry. Haf, Bailey is a lawyer, his favorite thing to do is argue, he’s just practicing on here in between episodes of Perry Mason! Hafnia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: Haf, Bailey is a lawyer, his favorite thing to do is argue, he’s just practicing on here in between episodes of Perry Mason! Ah. That's why he named his daughter Sue. Hafnia and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Cornish Steve said: Ah. That's why he named his daughter Sue. Sounds like he's spent too much time at the bar... Cornish Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 About Ben Godfrey. Just played his interview on the OS. Attitude very similar to Dom, talks well, modest, no sound bites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 20 hours ago, Hafnia said: Talking utter crap now Bailey. He played centre half in the 2000 fa cup final.... id say that's a capable level for a 19/20 year old. Made his debut in 98, played near 70 games up til that stage.... With Southgate band Ugo Southgate rated him as the best young centre half he had seen. Made his England debut at left back.... Alan Wright told me himself he had everything bar pace but didn't need it - was the best player at villa even before he went to midfield. We could go into the realm of James milner and discuss his someone can play attacking mid, centre mid, right wing, fight back, defensive mid to a ridiculous level... Id sooner leave it at Barry. Do you have the evidence to back how many games he played at centre half? I took mine off transfermarkt? I'm more than happy to take it back if its bollocks. FWIW lots of players have played in the FA Cup final, its doesn't make them good players at that position. You keep missing the point Haf, I'm not arguing against players playing in different positions. I will repeat it, and I know most of you wish I wouldn't, but there are not many examples of top centre halves then going on to play as a top midfielder. There are countless of examples of players moving into other positions and also of players moving from midfield into the centre back position, but very few the other way. The question is why is that the case? Are top centre backs more important than top midfielders or is there a different reason? Actuallly don't bother, I'd love to hear another ex-pro quote that misses the point... If you take requests, can I have one about Lee Osman, he could play anywhere in midfield? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 18 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: Haf, Bailey is a lawyer, his favorite thing to do is argue, he’s just practicing on here in between episodes of Perry Mason! This forum is meant to be for the thinking Evertonian! Nothing wrong with a good debate MikeO and London Blue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 19 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: Haf, Bailey is a lawyer, his favorite thing to do is argue, he’s just practicing on here in between episodes of Perry Mason! A lawyers favourite thing is to win. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Bailey said: Do you have the evidence to back how many games he played at centre half? I took mine off transfermarkt? I'm more than happy to take it back if its bollocks. FWIW lots of players have played in the FA Cup final, its doesn't make them good players at that position. You keep missing the point Haf, I'm not arguing against players playing in different positions. I will repeat it, and I know most of you wish I wouldn't, but there are not many examples of top centre halves then going on to play as a top midfielder. There are countless of examples of players moving into other positions and also of players moving from midfield into the centre back position, but very few the other way. The question is why is that the case? Are top centre backs more important than top midfielders or is there a different reason? Actuallly don't bother, I'd love to hear another ex-pro quote that misses the point... If you take requests, can I have one about Lee Osman, he could play anywhere in midfield? Don't be getting touchy bailey. Just to clarify in case Google isn't helping you... Players who are intended as defenders or have hybrid potential will start in midfield:- 1. Cos they have a line behind to cover any mistakes, they aren't the last line. often used as full back instead of centreback. Positional sense is at a premium at centre half. Centre mid gives experience. 2. If they have the qualities to play both positions, chances are they will excel in the first position and be used repeatedly 3. Centre halves cover the least distance of any outfield players and least sprints which is why players who have slowed down/got old. Move there. The average retirement age of a centre half is a fair bit older than a midfielder. But I'm sure you knew all this when deflecting your statement that you don't get players who are top class at both midfield and defence..... Lothar says Hiya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 3 hours ago, London Blue said: A lawyers favourite thing is to win. We are bluenoses not brownnoses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Hafnia said: We are bluenoses not brownnoses ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 14 hours ago, Bailey said: This forum is meant to be for the thinking Evertonian! Nothing wrong with a good debate Stopped being for the thinking Evertonian a long time ago, we just haven’t thought of a new strap line yet. Matt, Bailey and Zoo 2.0 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, StevO said: Stopped being for the thinking Evertonian a long time ago, we just haven’t thought of a new strap line yet. For self depreciating argumentative bitters Matt and Bailey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hafnia said: For self depreciating argumentative bitters ToffeeTalk; for the self deprecating argumentative bitter Evertonian. It’s got a ring to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 14 hours ago, Hafnia said: Don't be getting touchy bailey. Just to clarify in case Google isn't helping you... Players who are intended as defenders or have hybrid potential will start in midfield:- 1. Cos they have a line behind to cover any mistakes, they aren't the last line. often used as full back instead of centreback. Positional sense is at a premium at centre half. Centre mid gives experience. 2. If they have the qualities to play both positions, chances are they will excel in the first position and be used repeatedly 3. Centre halves cover the least distance of any outfield players and least sprints which is why players who have slowed down/got old. Move there. The average retirement age of a centre half is a fair bit older than a midfielder. But I'm sure you knew all this when deflecting your statement that you don't get players who are top class at both midfield and defence..... Lothar says Hiya I thought it came across a bit bitchy so that's why I put the smiley in the hope that it came across a bit more lighthearted! I think point 1 is a fair one but again it wouldn't explain why they then don't go back into midfield a little later in their career. The stronger likelihood is, in my opinion, that they are simply a better centre half and are only used in midfield to get experience and not because they are very good in that position. In respect of point 2, the players you have mentioned have shown they can be moved around repeatedly. Why wouldn't the same happen with centre backs who are equally as good in midfield? It happens for odd games but its very rare. I agree completely with point 3 in general but it wouldn't stop a younger or prime player playing in both positions. My point still remains. The point was, if a centre back is being talked about as being as good in midfield, its either very unlikely that he is, or in my opinion, it suggests an issue with his game at this stage of his career. Plenty of players start in midfield and then move back but very few move the other way. Barry is a good example. I thought Ledley King was another good example but having read around a bit more I found this: Spurs legend Ledley King has shared insight into the moment he found his best position, in an interview on the club’s official website. The 35-year old became renowned for his qualities as a central defender but has revealed it took until Euro 2004 for him to fully realise the position and formation that suited him best. “I was quite inexperienced at that time… I’d come off the back of the 2003-04 season playing in midfield but in the first game of the tournament I played against France in a flat back four which, now I’ve looked back, I realise I’d never really done up until that game,” said King. “Before that I’d played in a back three, in midfield, all over the place really, but never in a back four….That was when I realised ‘this defending is alright!’ and I enjoyed it.” I also admit that I think the transfermarkt stats are bulls**t! 3 hours ago, StevO said: Stopped being for the thinking Evertonian a long time ago, we just haven’t thought of a new strap line yet. Shukes and Hafnia 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted October 9, 2020 Report Share Posted October 9, 2020 On 07/10/2020 at 20:07, Bailey said: This forum is meant to be for the thinking Evertonian! Nothing wrong with a good debate Then we realise we are all to delicate or pretentious for that to happen, fuck me I'm never wrong so don’t argue or I’ll cry Bailey and Hafnia 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 17, 2020 Report Share Posted October 17, 2020 having seen him now i'm very excited by this signing. he wasn't fazed by the nature of the big game and seemed very calm and did his work. played out of position and was never at fault for either goal. i can't wait to see him at CB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.