Goodbye To The Gravy Guzzler

[Matt]

Dangerous game in my opinion. We’re just starting to get some semblence of morale and results and then punish the players for improving by depriving them of a celebration? Man-Management at it’s worse in my opinion 

[Romey 1878]

17 minutes ago, Matt said:

Dangerous game in my opinion. We’re just starting to get some semblence of morale and results and then punish the players for improving by depriving them of a celebration? Man-Management at it’s worse in my opinion 

Depriving? Punish?  Jesus, Matt. They've got to earn it and wait a few weeks, that's all.

It's not like the fella is stopping the players from spending time with their families. He's simply making them wait to blow off steam until after the busy Christmas period, when we need the players to be on the ball.

[Romey 1878]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/big-sam-wants-wayne-rooney-14028305

If he's not careful I'm actually going to start calling him by his name in relation to being our manager  

[Matt]

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Depriving? Punish?  Jesus, Matt. They've got to earn it and wait a few weeks, that's all.

It's not like the fella is stopping the players from spending time with their families. He's simply making them wait to blow off steam until after the busy Christmas period, when we need the players to be on the ball.

What else do you call taking away an activity from someone who's starting to perform better?

I get the argument, but counter-productive in my opinion. He's complaining about a squad that's too big but then not using the size when the fixtures come thick and fast, instead pushing back what's supposed to be a "blow off steam" event. 

Then again, I'm not as heartless as you

[Romey 1878]

3 minutes ago, Matt said:

What else do you call taking away an activity from someone who's starting to perform better?

I get the argument, but counter-productive in my opinion. He's complaining about a squad that's too big but then not using the size when the fixtures come thick and fast, instead pushing back what's supposed to be a "blow off steam" event. 

Then again, I'm not as heartless as you

What else do I call it? Doing the right thing. 

[Matt]

21 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

What else do I call it? Doing the right thing. 

And there's where we disagree

[Chach]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

Dangerous game in my opinion. We’re just starting to get some semblence of morale and results and then punish the players for improving by depriving them of a celebration? Man-Management at it’s worse in my opinion 

Get your hand off it mate, he's just maintaining their focus.

[Matt]

2 hours ago, Chach said:

Get your hand off it mate, he's just maintaining their focus.

No idea what that means. 

I already said I understand, I just don't agree with it and think it will be counter productive. 

[Paddock]

43 minutes ago, Matt said:

No idea what that means. 

I already said I understand, I just don't agree with it and think it will be counter productive. 

I think he meant to put “get your head around it”

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, Paddock said:

I think he meant to put “get your head around it”

Still wouldn’t make sense

[plaidharper]

2 hours ago, Chach said:

Get your hand off it mate, he's just maintaining their focus.

Agree.  

Besides who wants to party when they can play ball. Best game in the world.

[Quinn31]

7 hours ago, Matt said:

Dangerous game in my opinion. We’re just starting to get some semblence of morale and results and then punish the players for improving by depriving them of a celebration? Man-Management at it’s worse in my opinion 

This. It's not like the players are going to be in training instead of at the event and hell, they could go out on their own.

A bit ridiculous and symbolic if you ask me. 

[Matt]

Just now, Quinn31 said:

This. It's not like the players are going to be in training instead of at the event and hell, they could go out on their own.

A bit ridiculous and symbolic if you ask me. 

Didn’t even think of that! 

[Newty82]

7 hours ago, Matt said:

Dangerous game in my opinion. We’re just starting to get some semblence of morale and results and then punish the players for improving by depriving them of a celebration? Man-Management at it’s worse in my opinion 

It reads to me that he stopped it when he arrived. Makes sense to me considering where we were when he first came.

[Matt]

12 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

It reads to me that he stopped it when he arrived. Makes sense to me considering where we were when he first came.

That was weeks ago, results and performances have improved so why not reinstate it as a sign of faith if that was the case? Like Quinn pointed out, all it means is that they have free time instead, so what is to be gained?

[markjazzbassist]

maybe big sam likes to get tanked with the players at the party (i think he likes to drink, could be wrong) so he was worried they'd all be hungover and wouldn't be ready.  ain't no party like a big sam party!

[Wiggytop]

I've just read the report, it's OK with me, he wants them to be focused on the games not getting pissed, he's said they can do that in Jan when there's a bit more time between games.

Poor loves missing the drinky winky before Xmas.😜

[Cornish Steve]

20 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/dec/12/sam-allardyce-everton-christmas-party-newcastle-rafael-benitez

 

Stupid stupid decision. 

[sydneyneil]

Great result tonight. Rode our luck a couple of times but you can definitely see the defensive influence Allardyce has. We still gave the ball away too much under no pressure but that's just quality of players. His game management is very good, simple but effective. There seems to be a lot more action on the bench and we actually look like a team again where people know their roles.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Dangerous game in my opinion. We’re just starting to get some semblence of morale and results and then punish the players for improving by depriving them of a celebration? Man-Management at it’s worse in my opinion 

Man management at its best for me, lets them know they’ve not been good enough and that there is a new sheriff in town now who won’t accept it.

They can have their party once they’ve earned it

 

 

 

[nutmegwolf203]

Just now, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Man management at its best for me, lets them know they’ve not been good enough and that there is a new sheriff in town now who won’t accept it.
They can have their party once they’ve want it

 

Totally agree, maybe I'm a bit harsh on myself but I wouldn't want to go to that party if I've performed or haven't performed the way they have up until now. If I don't deserve to celebrate something, I don't. What's there to celebrate for them, honestly? They'll still do things with their families and amongst each other so it's not a big deal to me.

They're playing catch up right now and I bet when they're in a higher position in the new year even they will feel like it's actually worth it to acknowledge their achievements.  

[Hafnia]

4 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Man management at its best for me, lets them know they’ve not been good enough and that there is a new sheriff in town now who won’t accept it.

They can have their party once they’ve earned it

 

 

 

Totally agree.  This bunch of clowns have been an absolute disgrace.  Have a party once they've earned one. 

Good on allardyce for doing it. He will probably get on the ale with them if they do the business. 

[StevO]

If we keep winning Sam can do what he wants. 

[MC11]

Fair play to him he's came in and steadied a sinking ship. As StevO says, I didn't want him and I'm starting to like him.

Happy Days

[rubecula]

6 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

?Stupid stupid decision. 

why mate?

[Cornish Steve]

18 minutes ago, rubecula said:

why mate?

How would you react if your Christmas party and bonus were canceled, in a very public manner, after you'd busted your gut to succeed this year in a company doing poorly because of an incompetent CEO and a few lazy and overpaid recent hires? You'd wonder why you bothered and probably look elsewhere.

When you manage a team, you build team spirit and reward progress. The manager's decision to cancel a celebration hurts everyone indiscriminately - those who've played well to earn recent wins and those who put in the effort even during the down times. These players deserve to be appreciated, not branded with everyone else as naughty little schoolkids. Punish the likes of Schneiderlin, who's shown little desire other than to secure red cards. Don't punish Niasse and DC-L and Kenny and Holgate and Pickford, and don't play the heavy-handed misery at Christmas season. If you go to the dressing room now, I'm sure you'll hear the name Scrooge a lot.

Frankly, this is basic man-management.

[MikeO]

13 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

These players deserve to be appreciated, not branded with everyone else as naughty little schoolkids. Punish the likes of Schneiderlin, who's shown little desire other than to secure red cards. Don't punish Niasse and DC-L and Kenny and Holgate and Pickford.

So you're suggesting a party for the "good" guys while leaving out the "bad" ones? Incredibly divisive imo. 

[Cornish Steve]

27 minutes ago, MikeO said:

So you're suggesting a party for the "good" guys while leaving out the "bad" ones? Incredibly divisive imo. 

No. I would have the party for everyone (to bolster team spirit as it's beginning to be on the up) and then publicly reward those at the event who have put in all the effort. Let the non-performers feel left out.

[nutmegwolf203]

30 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

How would you react if your Christmas party and bonus were canceled, in a very public manner, after you'd busted your gut to succeed this year in a company doing poorly because of an incompetent CEO and a few lazy and overpaid recent hires? You'd wonder why you bothered and probably look elsewhere.

When you manage a team, you build team spirit and reward progress. The manager's decision to cancel a celebration hurts everyone indiscriminately - those who've played well to earn recent wins and those who put in the effort even during the down times. These players deserve to be appreciated, not branded with everyone else as naughty little schoolkids. Punish the likes of Schneiderlin, who's shown little desire other than to secure red cards. Don't punish Niasse and DC-L and Kenny and Holgate and Pickford, and don't play the heavy-handed misery at Christmas season. If you go to the dressing room now, I'm sure you'll hear the name Scrooge a lot.

Frankly, this is basic man-management.

I'd argue that he is building team spirit. Schneiderlin isn'tt at peak form, but he is playing a bit better and giving interviews again. That seems like a big deal to me, regardless of how you feel about the player. It's a postponed party not a demerit or a fine. I understand where you're coming from, and we'll probably never agree on this, but I think the players are just happy to be winning again. I'd be happy that I wasn't embarrassing myself every weekend any longer, even if I was Niasse, DCL, etc. After all it is a team sport, unlike track (athletics) or something like that. 

I'm of the opinion that even prospectively fun social gatherings can come at the wrong time. I turn down parties to do things for myself and my work all the time. I think them continuing their rehabilitation, which is what the pundits are calling it (rightly so), is what's most important. Also, they seem to be happy with Big Sam at the helm, he's getting results. It's almost like no one's upset but you. Not to be snide, but I don't think they're taking it as seriously as you or the media would elect to. I think we'd hear about it. "Cancelling Christmas" makes for a click bate headline but there's no real story there.

[nutmegwolf203]

16 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

No. I would have the party for everyone (to bolster team spirit as it's beginning to be on the up) and then publicly reward those at the event who have put in all the effort. Let the non-performers feel left out.

Is that better man management?