Lucas Digne

[StevO]

10 hours ago, Palfy said:

Steve mate all this ill bollocks when he was told he was playing, he’s thrown his dummy out the pram and his team mates under the bus, do any of you really believe we’ve got to this position because he politely asked Benitez to have a look at his tactics or play him in a more forward position. Lucky for us the manager isn’t Letting his heart rule his head. I’ve read he has already asked to leave this January and advised his agent he wants to go as quickly as possible, which adds up to the manager promptly replacing him in days if not hours. Hats off to Benitez we have a manager who won’t buckle under player power which we’ve needed since Moyes left.  

I’d like our manager to be able to have a grown up conversation with players who disagree with how he’s doing things. Maybe they both spat their dummies out. I’m pretty sure if one of your staff told you they disagreed with how you were doing something you would have a conversation with them and not just tell them to go and find another employer. Two grown ups can disagree without it being an issue. 

The issue with this is between Benitez and Digne but only one of them has previous for spitting their dummy out in situations like that. There are many players queuing up to talk about their experiences of being frozen out by Rafa. Xavi Alonso was a fantastic player and chose to be at the birth of his baby over a football match and wasn’t ever forgiven by Rafa. No managers have ever publicly lambasted Digne (I’ve drank a lot tonight and got a word like lambasted into a sentence) or talked about issues with him. Carlo thought he should be made Vice Captain!

[RuffRob]

Different managers have different approach's. I read that one player was a bit bemused at the lack of instruction and direction that came from Ancelotti - 'just player your game' was the instruction. Where as Benitez is very clear on the instructions he wants. Players have to adapt to tactics of different managers (Especially if you play for Everton!!)

Brands brought Digne to the club, Brands was sacked on 5th Dec and Digne was first left out of the team on 6th Dec. Coincidence? Could there have been words between the two centring around Brands dismissal. Could Digne's frustrations just boiled over. Who knows. 

I really don't think Benitez drops Digne lightly just for a minor disagreement or discussion about tactic - In the current climate at the club it had to be something significant for Benitez to drop Digne the way he did. 

It's a double edged sword - we want and need a strong manager who will ruffle a few feathers in this squad as there has been to many inconsistent and lacklustre performances over the part few years and no player should be treat above any other. Equally we don't have the depth of squad to be able to afford dropping our best players. 

There is an interesting stat for crosses so far this season - Lucas Digne is still one of the players who has delivered the most crosses in the Premier League this season.

In 10 games so far this year Digne has put in 71 crosses, last season he put in 215 over 30 games, so an identical ratio. I was not expecting his crossing figures to be so high this season. This would suggest the quality of his deliveries has suffered as much as anything. Others will have seen him play a lot more than me this season - so am wondering is that very much the case, Has the quality of his deliveries notably dipped? 

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_cross

 

[Palfy]

On 19/12/2021 at 01:47, StevO said:

I’d like our manager to be able to have a grown up conversation with players who disagree with how he’s doing things. Maybe they both spat their dummies out. I’m pretty sure if one of your staff told you they disagreed with how you were doing something you would have a conversation with them and not just tell them to go and find another employer. Two grown ups can disagree without it being an issue. 

The issue with this is between Benitez and Digne but only one of them has previous for spitting their dummy out in situations like that. There are many players queuing up to talk about their experiences of being frozen out by Rafa. Xavi Alonso was a fantastic player and chose to be at the birth of his baby over a football match and wasn’t ever forgiven by Rafa. No managers have ever publicly lambasted Digne (I’ve drank a lot tonight and got a word like lambasted into a sentence) or talked about issues with him. Carlo thought he should be made Vice Captain!

It’s been reported that this dispute about tactics and Digne’s role in the team has been going on for sometime and they have had discussions where Digne was allowed to air his views. But  let’s make Benitez the villain in this because we believe he has previous, if someone hit your car it doesn’t make you guilty because you had a crash 3 years ago and the other party have never had an accident, or does it you view. 

[StevO]

4 hours ago, Palfy said:

It’s been reported that this dispute about tactics and Digne’s role in the team as been going on for sometime and they have had discussions where Digne was aloud to air his views. But  let’s make Benitez the villain in this because we believe he has previous, if someone hit your car it doesn’t make you guilty because you had a crash 3 years ago and the other party have never had an accident, or does it you view. 

It’s been reported there has been a dispute, there hasn’t been any reports of him downing tools or refusing to play. 
But haven’t read anything saying that Digne has been allowed to air his views, I’d be more than happy to read them so please show.
 

In your car analogy no it doesn’t, but in cases to do with someone’s character it’s the norm to look at previous incidents. Happens all the time in football, as it does in real life. The car analogy makes absolutely no sense. If someone has a history of falling out with his players it doesn’t mean he’s always to blame, but it’s absolutely normal to take it into consideration if we know it’s happened many times before. There are plenty of players who have stayed publicly how they have had issues with Rafa, but I’ve not seen anyone state publicly that they have had issues with Digne. So of course I would take that into consideration when forming my opinion. 
 

Your opinion is that this is Digne’s fault. My opinion is that you’re wrong. Not sure it matters anyway, neither of us will change our mind unless one of them confirms it anyway and you’ll never post a link to show these reports. 

[Romey 1878]

https://www.footballtransfertavern.com/everton-fc-transfer-rumours/everton-arthur-digne-swap-transfer-latest/

I'd be quite happy with this.

[Romey 1878]

https://www.teamtalk.com/everton/lucas-digne-delivers-thumbs-down-newcastle-january-switch

[RuffRob]

4 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

https://www.teamtalk.com/everton/lucas-digne-delivers-thumbs-down-newcastle-january-switch

that does not surprise me. You would need to be a total mercenary to want to go there are the moment.

I would not be overly keen to see him line up against us for either a poorer team or a direct rival. A top 4 team I could handle as they have worldies all over so a Digne is not going to make the difference against us.

Although an over inflated Newcastle transfer fee would be tempting though. I am sure you would get an extra 20% out of them with money burning a hole in their pockets in January and most likely paid in a single instalment, which would do our FFP dilemma the world of good.

 

[c1982]

23 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

Although an over inflated Newcastle transfer fee would be tempting though. I am sure you would get an extra 20% out of them with money burning a hole in their pockets in January and most likely paid in a single instalment, which would do our FFP dilemma the world of good.

 

Any incoming fee can be reported in full whereas outgoing fees can be reported over the contract e.g. we sign this lad for £20m over a 5 year contract with £4m annual instalments - even if we sold Digne on exactly the same deal, we could report +£16m on our FFP for this. That’s my understanding anyway.

[dunlopp9987]

https://www.footmercato.net/a977123403428254457-naples-a-cible-deux-internationaux-francais-en-detresse

Napoli apparently looking at him

[Shukes]

Baffled how this guy has suddenly become the next scapegoat.

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

Baffled how this guy has suddenly become the next scapegoat.

Because he wants to leave and is a trouble maker 

[Cornish Steve]

3 hours ago, StevO said:

Because he wants to leave and is a trouble maker 

I've been a critic in recent months because of a downturn in his performances. Nonetheless, the guy's been a real professional despite this falling out: Nothing leaked to the press, no snide comments on Twitter, just consistently pro-Everton sentiment. All credit to the guy. He's not at all a trouble-maker.

[Palfy]

4 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

I've been a critic in recent months because of a downturn in his performances. Nonetheless, the guy's been a real professional despite this falling out: Nothing leaked to the press, no snide comments on Twitter, just consistently pro-Everton sentiment. All credit to the guy. He's not at all a trouble-maker.

This isn’t about what he may or may not be like now or before as a person, this is about a manager who has the last say on how the team plays and a player who doesn’t want to play for the manager or his tactics. It’s as basic as that so one of them has to backdown that doesn’t seem likely it’s going to happen, and it would appear that the club have backed the manager and believe in his ability to take the team forward so the player has to go. 

[Matt]

8 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

I've been a critic in recent months because of a downturn in his performances. Nonetheless, the guy's been a real professional despite this falling out: Nothing leaked to the press, no snide comments on Twitter, just consistently pro-Everton sentiment. All credit to the guy. He's not at all a trouble-maker.

1 comment on Instagram saying don't believe everything aside I agree. I got the logic of the sale but I'm pissed off to be honest. 

[Cornish Steve]

8 hours ago, Palfy said:

This isn’t about what he may or may not be like now or before as a person, this is about a manager who has the last say on how the team plays and a player who doesn’t want to play for the manager or his tactics. It’s as basic as that so one of them has to backdown that doesn’t seem likely it’s going to happen, and it would appear that the club have backed the manager and believe in his ability to take the team forward so the player has to go. 

I can tell you from first-hand experience just how frustrating it is to be told to perform tasks for which you're not suited, and no amount of money can overcome the frustration. I was VP of strategy, and a new company CMO was appointed. He began asking me to perform tasks that a summer intern could have done, whereas I was prevented from doing those things everyone else knew I excelled at. Within two weeks, I'd chatted with another executive and transferred to a different division. It's one thing to be guided and helped and tutored, with a leader explaining how some adjustments will benefit the team as a whole, but it's something else to be micromanaged into a role for which a junior player may be more suited. Add to this the public scrutiny of players and how they perform, and I'd probably want a transfer in his shoes.

[Shukes]

For it depends on how it is carried out. I welcome my employees to come in and question my decisions. Sometimes I learn from them just by listening. There is nothing wrong at all in questioning tactics, it’s how the game has evolved over 100+ years. 

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, Shukes said:

For it depends on how it is carried out. I welcome my employees to come in and question my decisions. Sometimes I learn from them just by listening. There is nothing wrong at all in questioning tactics, it’s how the game has evolved over 100+ years. 

No there isn’t anything wrong with questioning a decision as long as you accept the final answer, whether that suits your agenda or not. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

No there isn’t anything wrong with questioning a decision as long as you accept the final answer, whether that suits your agenda or not. 

But if the agenda is to win football matches for Everton, whilst getting spanked every week, maybe, just maybe, there could have been more conversation and less manager taking his ball and going home. 

[Palfy]

35 minutes ago, StevO said:

But if the agenda is to win football matches for Everton, whilst getting spanked every week, maybe, just maybe, there could have been more conversation and less manager taking his ball and going home. 

How do you know there wasn’t more conversation, I read this has been going on for a while with plenty of discussion between them. And why has Benitez taken his ball and gone home he’s made a decision in his capacity as the manager because that’s what he’s paid to do pick the team and dictate the tactics, and when the team are up against it with multiple injuries the tactics won’t suit all players and how they would like to play, but team players do what’s required even if it’s not how they would personally choose how play. Luckily in the 3 games without Digne we have had squad of players who have gone out and given their all for the team even if they have had to sacrifice their own game for the good of the team, and in doing so we beat Arsenal and drew away to Chelsea with in between a disappointing loss to Palace due mainly to two poor decisions, one being from Gray and the other from Coleman, not bad wouldn’t you agree. I’m not going to praise Benitez for that as he says it’s not about individuals it’s about the team and long may that last. 

[StevO]

9 hours ago, Palfy said:

How do you know there wasn’t more conversation, I read this has been going on for a while with plenty of discussion between them. And why has Benitez taken his ball and gone home he’s made a decision in his capacity as the manager because that’s what he’s paid to do pick the team and dictate the tactics, and when the team are up against it with multiple injuries the tactics won’t suit all players and how they would like to play, but team players do what’s required even if it’s not how they would personally choose how play. Luckily in the 3 games without Digne we have had squad of players who have gone out and given their all for the team even if they have had to sacrifice their own game for the good of the team, and in doing so we beat Arsenal and drew away to Chelsea with in between a disappointing loss to Palace due mainly to two poor decisions, one being from Gray and the other from Coleman, not bad wouldn’t you agree. I’m not going to praise Benitez for that as he says it’s not about individuals it’s about the team and long may that last. 

Where did you read this?

Players and managers have disagreements all of the time, a good manager will handle the situation without it getting out of hand. This has clearly got out of hand if, as you say the conversations have been going on for a while, then the manager has failed to keep control the situation. If the manager triply believes that his tactic ideals are best for the team and disagrees with a player who would like us to be on the ball more, then I’d want him to convince the player (and the whole team) that it’s the way to go without there being a fall out. This manager has a history of freezing out players instead of turning them around. It’s what he does. He’s had a very successful career doing it, so fair play to him. Doesn’t mean I have to like it though. 

[Matt]

On 22/12/2021 at 19:12, Shukes said:

Baffled how this guy has suddenly become the next scapegoat.

Quite inkeeping with the Moshiri era to be honest. 

[RuffRob]

4 hours ago, StevO said:

Where did you read this?

Players and managers have disagreements all of the time, a good manager will handle the situation without it getting out of hand. This has clearly got out of hand if, as you say the conversations have been going on for a while, then the manager has failed to keep control the situation. If the manager triply believes that his tactic ideals are best for the team and disagrees with a player who would like us to be on the ball more, then I’d want him to convince the player (and the whole team) that it’s the way to go without there being a fall out. This manager has a history of freezing out players instead of turning them around. It’s what he does. He’s had a very successful career doing it, so fair play to him. Doesn’t mean I have to like it though. 

Its fair enough to say people should try and second guess what Digne's behaviour is and make him out to be a villan. However, in all fairness should offer Benitez the same sort of respect.

It sounds to me like its half a dozan of one and half a dozan of the other.

My only critisisum of Digne is that he has not been half as good in the past 12 months (so pre Benitez) as he was in the preceeding 2 years.  If you are going to disagree with your manager to the point it strains the relationship, I think you should at least be doing it when you yourself are playing well. We know an on form Digne is capable of backing his argumnet with Benitez up on the pitch, but alas he just has not done that in past 12months.

The Premier league stats have Digne putting in 70 cross in his 10games under Benitez. Last season it was 215 crosses in 30 games, a near exact ratio of crosses per game, so it is not as if Digne is not being allowed to venture forward.

It could be due to the injury he suffered or the fact he has no competition at LB or that he has signed a long term contract in February. Something is not quite the same with him over the whole of 2021 and the team has suffered a bit in this period. 

[Bailey]

5 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

Its fair enough to say people should try and second guess what Digne's behaviour is and make him out to be a villan. However, in all fairness should offer Benitez the same sort of respect.

It sounds to me like its half a dozan of one and half a dozan of the other.

My only critisisum of Digne is that he has not been half as good in the past 12 months (so pre Benitez) as he was in the preceeding 2 years.  If you are going to disagree with your manager to the point it strains the relationship, I think you should at least be doing it when you yourself are playing well. We know an on form Digne is capable of backing his argumnet with Benitez up on the pitch, but alas he just has not done that in past 12months.

The Premier league stats have Digne putting in 70 cross in his 10games under Benitez. Last season it was 215 crosses in 30 games, a near exact ratio of crosses per game, so it is not as if Digne is not being allowed to venture forward.

It could be due to the injury he suffered or the fact he has no competition at LB or that he has signed a long term contract in February. Something is not quite the same with him over the whole of 2021 and the team has suffered a bit in this period. 

I think it is without doubt that Digne isnt getting as forward as he used to. I think it goes further back than Benitez though as we were equally as bad going forward under Ancellotti (in the end). 

I have just looked at the stats and the Premier League website has him down as playing 13 games which is just under 2 crosses less per game compared to last season and over 2 crosses per game compared to the two seasons before that.

The last two seasons the crossing accuracy has dropped on average 6-7% compared to the two seasons before. I propose that would suggest an element of crossing the ball from worse positions. 

Defensively his tackle success rate has dropped the last two seasons but his recovery rate is the highest it has ever been. 

There isnt much difference in his passes per game either across the seasons however I suspect those passes are in deeper areas.

[MikeO]

On 08/12/2021 at 01:05, Romey 1878 said:

Last I heard was that he’d be back in a couple of months and they were hopeful surgery won’t be needed.

https://www.si.com/soccer/chelsea/news/thomas-tuchel-provides-ben-chilwell-injury-update-after-acl-injury

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59811783

[Romey 1878]

34 minutes ago, MikeO said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59811783

Now it would make sense to go after Digne.

Apparently they want to take him on loan with an option to buy in the summer. That won't help us at all because I doubt they'll take up the option to buy, unless they get shut of Alonso in the summer.

[dunlopp9987]

Rumors also that Newcastle are in for him. That would make the most sense to me, plus we could maybe squeeze more money out of them

[Romey 1878]

14 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Rumors also that Newcastle are in for him. That would make the most sense to me, plus we could maybe squeeze more money out of them

He doesn't strike me as someone that would go for the pay packet, so I think that's a non-starter. Also, I'd hate to improve a side that are our direct competitors this season.

[Palfy]

52 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Rumors also that Newcastle are in for him. That would make the most sense to me, plus we could maybe squeeze more money out of them

Chelsea could show some interest now that Chilwell is out for the rest of the season, for me that may be a good route to get a better fee. 

[RuffRob]

27 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Chelsea could show some interest now that Chilwell is out for the rest of the season, for me that may be a good route to get a better fee. 

I also think there is a good chance he will end up at Cheslea now. Proven quality premiership player who is not cup tied for CL football.

The more clubs after him the better. 

[AlbanyNYToffee]

Just a reminder that when he goes and does well that doesn't mean we should have kept him and he could have done the same for us. If it's Chelsea they play attacking football with wing backs - absolutely perfect for him. Not every good player is going to succeed everywhere he goes, and sometimes a change of scenery is the only way forward. We saw the best of Digne and it was brilliant but we aren't likely to see it again for many reasons. Get what we can and wish him the absolute best.