Josh King

[Zoo 2.0]

8 minutes ago, Matt said:

Or you go for another quality striker to play 2 up top by default. 
 

and anyone using “he’s better than Tosun” as a selling point needs to stop, because it sets the bar far too low

Thought I was losing the plot - the whole problem is that we have utter deadwood outside of the first XI yet people are all over someone that will become just that?! If it doesn't improve us, don't bother and this really doesn't, it's misplaced optimism.

You buy crap, you get crap; Fabien Delph, Ashley Williams, Sandro etc.

[London Blue]

To quote Gordon Gecko re Josh King and Cenk "Different dog, same fleas". No disrespect to him, he's just not good enough for what we need now. Under Moyes he would have been a great signing, not now.

[Cisk]

So you buy someone who's better than DCl, DCL gets dropped and moves on to Man U, we are still stuck in the same position - just rotating money around. New player who replaces DCL could be shite - stuck with said player and an unhappy DCL or  a DCL who is now on fire at Man U because we have moved him along.

 

I understand your argument but this only really works in positions where there are more than 1 playing each game. We can't afford 50m+ strikers to use as backup or swapsies with DCL.

[Cisk]

7 minutes ago, London Blue said:

To quote Gordon Gecko re Josh King and Cenk "Different dog, same fleas". No disrespect to him, he's just not good enough for what we need now. Under Moyes he would have been a great signing, not now.

Who is available with Prem experience and a proven goal scorer in that league and is happy to be no.2 to DCL, who rarely gets injured?

[Zoo 2.0]

4 minutes ago, Cisk said:

 I understand your argument but this only really works in positions where there are more than 1 playing each game. We can't afford 50m+ strikers to use as backup or swapsies with DCL.

I've said from the beginning that you could head to the continent to find a more suitable option. How about Luis Diaz at FC Porto for example? Only 23 years old and has a league record of 1 in every 4 games - would come for a similar price and has his career ahead, rather than behind him. Obviously with the Portuguese league being what I would class as the ''B Tier'' I'd expect that he would jump at the chance to come to the Premier League - even in a rotation role. If you're not bothered about age, Moussa Maraga (at Porto) has a goal record of 1 in 2 and is built like a beast. With the pandemic all Portuguese clubs bar Benfica are struggling financially, so it's the perfect time to scout these kind of markets. 

Sporting who are top of the league have Sporar, a lad that joined this summer and has a record of 1 in 3 - Luis Phellype his partner boasts the same record. If you look hard enough (and all top flight clubs have extensive scouting networks) then good purchases can be found. People need to realise that football is played across the entire world, not just England - just because Josh King is a name people are familiar with doesn't mean that he's the best option we've got.

Lassina Traore (Ajax) & Paul Onuachu (Genk) two other names off the top of my head... There's much better options IMO.

[London Blue]

37 minutes ago, Cisk said:

Who is available with Prem experience and a proven goal scorer in that league and is happy to be no.2 to DCL, who rarely gets injured?

His goal stats for this season show he has not scored so far this season. 

We are aiming higher now, their must be better options out there we can use.

[Cisk]

10 minutes ago, London Blue said:

His goal stats for this season show he has not scored so far this season. 

We are aiming higher now, their must be better options out there we can use.

King averages about 10 prem goals a season..more than happy with that as a back-up / sub

[Cisk]

39 minutes ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

I've said from the beginning that you could head to the continent to find a more suitable option. How about Luis Diaz at FC Porto for example? Only 23 years old and has a league record of 1 in every 4 games - would come for a similar price and has his career ahead, rather than behind him. Obviously with the Portuguese league being what I would class as the ''B Tier'' I'd expect that he would jump at the chance to come to the Premier League - even in a rotation role. If you're not bothered about age, Moussa Maraga (at Porto) has a goal record of 1 in 2 and is built like a beast. With the pandemic all Portuguese clubs bar Benfica are struggling financially, so it's the perfect time to scout these kind of markets. 

Sporting who are top of the league have Sporar, a lad that joined this summer and has a record of 1 in 3 - Luis Phellype his partner boasts the same record. If you look hard enough (and all top flight clubs have extensive scouting networks) then good purchases can be found. People need to realise that football is played across the entire world, not just England - just because Josh King is a name people are familiar with doesn't mean that he's the best option we've got.

Lassina Traore (Ajax) & Paul Onuachu (Genk) two other names off the top of my head... There's much better options IMO.

But how many continental strikers actually do very well here - other than the big international names already. The youngster at Wolves from Portugal is not exactly doing it is he - yet cost around £30-40m.

None of the ones you've mentioned are likely to do it here. Also, not sure the Portuguese league is a good yard stick to compare the Prem to.

[London Blue]

13 minutes ago, Cisk said:

King averages about 10 prem goals a season..more than happy with that as a back-up / sub

And now he averages 0 in the Championship.

Not saying he could not do a job, just that there are better players who could do a better job.

 

[Shukes]

So the options are:

1: take a risk on an unknown with potential.

2: spend the money on a proven premier league average at best. 
 

Option 1 please Bob!

For me a player like King, is consolidating our position as a mid table team. Taking a gamble on a potentially better player, is showing ambition.

[Cisk]

2 minutes ago, Shukes said:

So the options are:

1: take a risk on an unknown with potential.

2: spend the money on a proven premier league average at best. 
 

Option 1 please Bob!

For me a player like King, is consolidating our position as a mid table team. Taking a gamble on a potentially better player, is showing ambition.

Great.....I want to be on that bus with 11 Moise Keans playing for us each week in the league

[Shukes]

10 minutes ago, Cisk said:

Great.....I want to be on that bus with 11 Moise Keans playing for us each week in the league

Compared to 11 Josh Kings every week mate! 
Again, I’ll go with the 11 Keans. 
 

Ask PSG if they would swap one Moise Kean for one Josh King..... you know the answer already

Its not that I don’t get your point, I just think you have to aim high, and accept sometimes it won’t work. For every few Moise Keans, you might drop a DCL. 

[Shukes]

Keep buying Josh Kings, and well.... you get Josh Kings.

[markjazzbassist]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

Or you go for another quality striker to play 2 up top by default. 
 

and anyone using “he’s better than Tosun” as a selling point needs to stop, because it sets the bar far too low

We’ve been through this before Matt.  Our marquee signing James doesn’t work in a 442.  Also we have richarlison who would be relegated to left midfield which ain’t right.  442 isn’t good for our players and our skill set currently.

[Matt]

45 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

We’ve been through this before Matt.  Our marquee signing James doesn’t work in a 442.  Also we have richarlison who would be relegated to left midfield which ain’t right.  442 isn’t good for our players and our skill set currently.

But it’d be good to improve the squad to mean that 442 is also an option, no? Meaning your second striker is actual competition and gives tactical possibilities rather than a backup striker who’s a filler just in case, and couldn’t do a good enough job if DCL had a long term injury.  That’s how you improve the squad. It’s definitely not by saying we can’t play that way because of 1 player doesn’t fit it. 

This would be a backward step for me. As LB rightly says, in the Moyes era he’d have been a great signing. Although I hope @Zoo 2.0is on the windup with Lassina, the guy didn’t get a chance to prove anything in his previous spell with us, he’d be hung out to dry before the contract was signed if he came back! 
edit: it’s not the guy I was thinking of  

[Bailey]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

Or you go for another quality striker to play 2 up top by default. 
 

and anyone using “he’s better than Tosun” as a selling point needs to stop, because it sets the bar far too low

 

4 hours ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

Thought I was losing the plot - the whole problem is that we have utter deadwood outside of the first XI yet people are all over someone that will become just that?! If it doesn't improve us, don't bother and this really doesn't, it's misplaced optimism.

You buy crap, you get crap; Fabien Delph, Ashley Williams, Sandro etc.

Both good points and very true! 

I think if you do bring King in it is with the short term in mind. I think we do need a striker this window and I would actually say that I think King had a better all round game than DCL, which I am sure isn't something most will agree with. Whether he still has that game is a different question.

I think a loan would be a solid play if Bournemouth would entertain it. 

Others have mentioned that whoever comes would play second fiddle to DCL. I'm not sure that will definitely be the case as plenty will fancy they are better footballers. They would just need to match his work rate and mentality and not many decent strikers do.

[Zoo 2.0]

2 hours ago, Cisk said:

But how many continental strikers actually do very well here - other than the big international names already. The youngster at Wolves from Portugal is not exactly doing it is he - yet cost around £30-40m.

None of the ones you've mentioned are likely to do it here. Also, not sure the Portuguese league is a good yard stick to compare the Prem to.

Robin van Persie - Signed from Feyernoord (Holland) and was arguably Arsenal's best striker for the time he was there, moved to Manchester United and won the Premier League. 

Ruud van Nistlerooy - Signed from PSV (Holland) and again, with Manchester United took the piss and banged goals in for fun - got bored and moved to Real Madrid after falling out with Sir Alex. 

Eden Hazard - Played as a winger for Lille (France) and helped them to climb up the table, moved to Chelsea and become arguably the Premier League's best player.

You specifically name the Portuguese League and dismiss it, need I mention a young boy named Cristiano who Manchester United took and punt on after not even a full season with Sporting? All of the players I have just mentioned are household names, but were nobodies in "poor" leagues when they were signed by Premier League teams. 

As I've said all along (and I don't mean to sound like a cock) but watch European games, watch the up and coming talent and you'll see that there are better, cheaper options than those in England (King included). The Portuguese League is arguably the best for young talent too; Ronaldo, João Felix, Bruno Fernandes, Renato Sanches (who is quality now), Ruben Neves, Ruben Dias etc... 

Fabio Silva is a bit of a strange one too, as he was never trusted by the Portuguese management (much to the anger of the supporters) so he's not really had the experience required to suddenly jump to Premier League football - a signing a touch too early IMO. 

[Btay]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

But it’d be good to improve the squad to mean that 442 is also an option, no? Meaning your second striker is actual competition and gives tactical possibilities rather than a backup striker who’s a filler just in case, and couldn’t do a good enough job if DCL had a long term injury.  That’s how you improve the squad. It’s definitely not by saying we can’t play that way because of 1 player doesn’t fit it. 

This would be a backward step for me. As LB rightly says, in the Moyes era he’d have been a great signing. Although I hope @Zoo 2.0is on the windup with Lassina, the guy didn’t get a chance to prove anything in his previous spell with us, he’d be hung out to dry before the contract was signed if he came back! 
edit: it’s not the guy I was thinking of  

Absolutely, right now for us to realistically change tactics and go 442 we would probably pull Richarlison from left wing to striker. Apart from Richarlison & James - latter who shouldn’t really be considered a winger, we don’t have any wide players who actually contribute goals & assist. 
 

Id like us to sign someone younger who is fast and makes defence’s drop deeper in fear of them running in behind. 
 

And I completely agree with Zoo, look abroad. There’s bucket loads of talent out their and cheaper.

[RuffRob]

I would be happy enough to see Josh King added to the squad. If at the right wages.

can play left, right and central, has pace, can dribble,  makes space, he scores, big and strong, proven in Prem. A play who could come of the bench and actually offer something in a game and works well when playing counter attacking football.

You wouldn't build a team around him, or have him as the main man or anything like that, but as back up to injuries to our front players and as a versatile player on the bench, I would have him.

not sure he would want to be a bench warmer though, and he may be after decent wage if he comes at a cheap fee - so this might make it a no goer in any case.

[London Blue]

2 hours ago, Cisk said:

Great.....I want to be on that bus with 11 Moise Keans playing for us each week in the league

Hey, given the number of sex parties he reportedly attends that bus is going to be a fun place to be!!

[Cisk]

9 hours ago, London Blue said:

Hey, given the number of sex parties he reportedly attends that bus is going to be a fun place to be!!

Lol...

[SpartyBlue]

Forgive me if this is more appropriate in a different thread, but where does Simms fit into our striker decisions? Clearly he’s gonna need a step up for next season at the latest. If we think he’s gonna be a first teamer in the next year or two does that effect what we do in the next couple windows? 

[MikeO]

5 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

Forgive me if this is more appropriate in a different thread, but where does Simms fit into our striker decisions? Clearly he’s gonna need a step up for next season at the latest. If we think he’s gonna be a first teamer in the next year or two does that effect what we do in the next couple windows? 

Try here

[SpartyBlue]

10 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Try here

Ha. Thanks.  I’m aware he has his thread I just thought it might be relevant to a discussion about attaining a new striker. Plus, nobody comments in there.

[Romey 1878]

36 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

Ha. Thanks.  I’m aware he has his thread I just thought it might be relevant to a discussion about attaining a new striker. Plus, nobody comments in there.

Because there’s been nothing to say. Now you have something to say about him so get it going. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, SpartyBlue said:

Ha. Thanks.  I’m aware he has his thread I just thought it might be relevant to a discussion about attaining a new striker. Plus, nobody comments in there.

If everyone didn’t post in a thread because no one posted in it before we would have zero threads. 

[SpartyBlue]

3 minutes ago, StevO said:

If everyone didn’t post in a thread because no one posted in it before we would have zero threads. 

I understand but I think discussing current strikers in a thread about a possible addition to the position is on topic. Instead we can discuss possible additions in a thread about a current striker. Anyhow I have removed my question to the more appropriate place.

[Bailey]

21 hours ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

Robin van Persie - Signed from Feyernoord (Holland) and was arguably Arsenal's best striker for the time he was there, moved to Manchester United and won the Premier League. 

Ruud van Nistlerooy - Signed from PSV (Holland) and again, with Manchester United took the piss and banged goals in for fun - got bored and moved to Real Madrid after falling out with Sir Alex. 

Eden Hazard - Played as a winger for Lille (France) and helped them to climb up the table, moved to Chelsea and become arguably the Premier League's best player.

You specifically name the Portuguese League and dismiss it, need I mention a young boy named Cristiano who Manchester United took and punt on after not even a full season with Sporting? All of the players I have just mentioned are household names, but were nobodies in "poor" leagues when they were signed by Premier League teams. 

As I've said all along (and I don't mean to sound like a cock) but watch European games, watch the up and coming talent and you'll see that there are better, cheaper options than those in England (King included). The Portuguese League is arguably the best for young talent too; Ronaldo, João Felix, Bruno Fernandes, Renato Sanches (who is quality now), Ruben Neves, Ruben Dias etc... 

Fabio Silva is a bit of a strange one too, as he was never trusted by the Portuguese management (much to the anger of the supporters) so he's not really had the experience required to suddenly jump to Premier League football - a signing a touch too early IMO. 

I saw a graphic somewhere about transfers coming from Benfica and you look through the list and they have sold some real quality footballers to top leagues. 

[c1982]

Problem with all of these exciting players from the continent is that January is not the market to buy them in unless they’re nearing the end of their contract or you can get someone out of favour (usually loan to buy) or with a release clause. Yes, the January market can help transform a season - see Fernandes to Man U for instance but it’s not a market many teams invest as much in and many teams will charge a January premium with it being mid-season. Josh King could be a very smart, low risk, short-term fix. No, he’s nobody’s first choice but his versatility and proven ability to do well in this league would have and could still come in handy on say a 2.5 year contract.

[Btay]

58 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

I understand but I think discussing current strikers in a thread about a possible addition to the position is on topic. Instead we can discuss possible additions in a thread about a current striker. Anyhow I have removed my question to the more appropriate place.

Just post what ever you want where ever you want! If you see an interesting rumour about a world class player - throw it in one of the match day threads! 

@MikeOloves moving threads around, keeps him busy!