Denzel Dumfries

[Bailey]

32 minutes ago, Palfy said:

The agent club thing is very complicated some of the richer clubs will pay agents a decent fee just so they have first refusal at any players that agent represents. An agent like Riola as made a successful career with the help and backing of the clubs he works for, as for the players they know he has the contacts and the ear of many big clubs so they want to sign for him to further their careers and bank balances. 

This.

The agent's do as much work for the clubs as they do for the players, buying and selling. Sometimes that works in our favour, sometimes it doesn't.

[pete0]

21 minutes ago, Bailey said:

This.

The agent's do as much work for the clubs as they do for the players, buying and selling. Sometimes that works in our favour, sometimes it doesn't.

That would be if they were acting as a middle man. Before player power a club would contact an agent for help getting rid of a player. They are doing services for the club. 

But these days in football it's more common for a player to have sole representation, with the player paying for his agents services, usually % of the wage. Madness that they even ask for a fee from the buying clubs, even more so that the club's pay it.

For tax purposes HMRC soft on it and let them get away with it on a dual services basis.

https://www.saffery.com/news-and-events/press-releases/2021/new-hmrc-guidance-football-and-payments-to-agents-april-2021

 

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

That would be if they were acting as a middle man. Before player power a club would contact an agent for help getting rid of a player. They are doing services for the club. 

But these days in football it's more common for a player to have sole representation, with the player paying for his agents services, usually % of the wage. Madness that they even ask for a fee from the buying clubs, even more so that the club's pay it.

For tax purposes HMRC soft on it and let them get away with it on a dual services basis.

https://www.saffery.com/news-and-events/press-releases/2021/new-hmrc-guidance-football-and-payments-to-agents-april-2021

 

The tax implications are quite separate from the role an agent has with a club, whether the new HMRC rules change that I very much doubt it, the HMRC will struggle to try and dictate what an agent charges for his services and what a club is prepared to pay an agent who gets them what they want. All the HMRC are concerned about is that clubs are using their agent fees to pay less taxes by reducing profits, that’s not going to deter clubs from using agents to make sure they get the best players available.  

[pete0]

17 minutes ago, Palfy said:

The tax implications are quite separate from the role an agent has with a club, whether the new HMRC rules change that I very much doubt it, the HMRC will struggle to try and dictate what an agent charges for his services and what a club is prepared to pay an agent who gets them what they want. All the HMRC are concerned about is that clubs are using their agent fees to pay less taxes by reducing profits, that’s not going to deter clubs from using agents to make sure they get the best players available.  

It's more that the agents fees should be from the player. HMRC collects more money if the player pays it out of his own pocket, albeit usually the club pays it on his behalf on a grossed up basis. The club's are using a loophole to only have to gross up half the agents fee. 

If say the fee is £1m. Then the grossed up amount is £1.8m. So the club would then pay HMRC £800k in tax on behalf of the player.

Whereas is By splitting the fee 50/50 they are saving about £400k per million.

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, pete0 said:

It's more that the agents fees should be from the player. HMRC collects more money if the player pays it out of his own pocket, albeit usually the club pays it on his behalf on a grossed up basis. The club's are using a loophole to only have to gross up half the agents fee. 

 

 

We will have to see how it pans out, but the big clubs will just put the agent’s with the best players on their books on some sort of contract, but the original complaint was that agents get paid by the club, that will not stop the clubs who want first refusal on the better players will find away round any tax rules that the HMRC implement, when it comes to tax avoidance the best brains don’t work for HMRC they work in the private sector. 

[Matt]

7 hours ago, Bill said:

Shouldn't be paying that much Steve, not only do I get free posting and next day delivery, but I can also watch Films and videos in Amazon Prime.  £7.00 a month or £79.00 for the year if you pay annually. This is what you get........

https://skintdad.co.uk/amazon-prime-review-worth-money/

Soooo.... not free then

[pete0]

8 minutes ago, Palfy said:

We will have to see how it pans out, but the big clubs will just put the agent’s with the best players on their books on some sort of contract, but the original complaint was that agents get paid by the club, that will not stop the clubs who want first refusal on the better players will find away round any tax rules that the HMRC implement, when it comes to tax avoidance the best brains don’t work for HMRC they work in the private sector. 

Nothing to do with the brains there. Most staff at HMRC know how to close a loophole, legislation and stronger enforcement of penalties, but the managers won't escalate and the government for the most part are happy for the loopholes to exist see their voting on Google and Amazon to continue to take the piss.

The loopholes that can be used by everyone get closed a lot faster though. 

[Palfy]

15 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Nothing to do with the brains there. Most staff at HMRC know how to close a loophole, legislation and stronger enforcement of penalties, but the managers won't escalate and the government for the most part are happy for the loopholes to exist see their voting on Google and Amazon to continue to take the piss.

The loopholes that can be used by everyone get closed a lot faster though. 

I don’t know about that Pete corporate accountants at the top of their game don’t get paid 6 or 7 figure salaries because their knowledge of tax avoidance and how to create loopholes, is equivalent to those who work in HMRC on 50-60 thousand a year.  Globally countries especially the G7 were meant to work together to stop companies avoiding taxes in the countries that they made their profits in, we haven’t seen any signs of that happening and probably won’t because there’s always some who are making and won’t want changes. 

[Bill]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Soooo.... not free then

If you buy anything on Amazon and your not a Prime member you have to pay for your postage.

Because I am a Prime member I don't pay any postage so in that respect it is free.

The £79.00 a year i pay allows me to access all the Films, TV series, books, and Videos, on Prime just as you would buy Netflix.

[dunlopp9987]

40 minutes ago, Bill said:

If you buy anything on Amazon and your not a Prime member you have to pay for your postage.

Because I am a Prime member I don't pay any postage so in that respect it is free.

The £79.00 a year i pay allows me to access all the Films, TV series, books, and Videos, on Prime just as you would buy Netflix.

But also, Jeff Bezos is the scum of the earth.

Haven't purchased anything off Amazon or from Whole Foods in 15 months

[markjazzbassist]

22 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

But also, Jeff Bezos is the scum of the earth.

Haven't purchased anything off Amazon or from Whole Foods in 15 months

yeah i boycott them too, fuck bezos

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

If you buy anything on Amazon and your not a Prime member you have to pay for your postage.

Because I am a Prime member I don't pay any postage so in that respect it is free.

The £79.00 a year i pay allows me to access all the Films, TV series, books, and Videos, on Prime just as you would buy Netflix.

I know what the gimic is Bill. I worked in eCommerce logistics for 2 years nearly. Its a good deal, but it's not free shipping. Also, you don't have to be a Prime member to not pay P&P. 

[London Blue]

So are we going to sign this Amazon guy instead of Dumfries, is he any good as a right back?

Do we have to pay postage and package if we sign him?

[Matt]

Just now, London Blue said:

So are we going to sign this Amazon guy instead of Dumfries, is he any good as a right back?

Heard he's got a really good delivery...

[Wiggytop]

He could help us wrap up games nicely.

[Bill]

He's in Prime condition.

[London Blue]

What have I done  

[MikeO]

6 minutes ago, London Blue said:

What have I done  

You've initiated a lively discussion which is always great to see so I salute you mate, and wish you well in your future courier.

[London Blue]

Besos of luck to him if he signs.

[Shukes]

We have to be careful with this signing due to his agent…. It’s a jungle out there!

[Romey 1878]

 

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://sportwitness.co.uk/everton-reached-agreement-with-club-but-cannot-proceed-with-signing-due-to-players-firm-stance/

If that’s true and the player rejected us ( why wouldn’t he ? ) then you can’t blame Brands/ the club

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

7 minutes ago, patto said:

To be fair we messed him about for about 2 months at first I thought it was Aurelio wouldn’t sign that would be a kick in the teeth. 

How did we mess him about for 2 months ?

[Bill]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

How did we mess him about for 2 months ?

8th of June ......... https://www.teamtalk.com/news/-brands-hopeful-everton-clear-plan-sign-exciting-holland-star

[Matt]

2 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

http://sportwitness.co.uk/everton-reached-agreement-with-club-but-cannot-proceed-with-signing-due-to-players-firm-stance/

If that’s true and the player rejected us ( why wouldn’t he ? ) then you can’t blame Brands/ the club

Since when has clear communication ever been proof of anything?

[Bailey]

There have been reports for a while that Dumfries has wanted to go to Inter, so we have had plenty of time to line-up someone else. I also expect that we would have had a list of 3 or 4 players to try and bring in if this deal fell through.

 

I don't like the idea of having Kenny as back up but if we can't move him on, I don't see us getting anyone else in as cover either. It might end up with a double loan deal like we did when Sidibe arrived.

[Romey 1878]

 

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

4 hours ago, Bill said:

8th of June ......... https://www.teamtalk.com/news/-brands-hopeful-everton-clear-plan-sign-exciting-holland-star

 Go on you’ve lost me, what is the relevance of that article?

 

[Cornish Steve]

On 10/08/2021 at 01:29, Btay said:

The players should be the only ones paying the agents not clubs.

That's just not how it works in many businesses. We may not like them, but agents play a valuable role.

It's like buying and selling a house: We hate paying 6% to the agents, but it's part of the process. In some cases, the better option is simply not to move. Same here. We talk all the time about buying this player or buying that player, but much better to well manage the resources we have, especially youngsters coming through.

[Bill]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 Go on you’ve lost me, what is the relevance of that article?

 

It was two months ago that that article said we had a clear plan to sign him. You said we hadn't been messing him about for two months. I think we have and that's why we've lost another one.