Next Everton manager: the wisdom of TT.

[Wiggytop]

I’m ignoring all the press guff, and will wait for the official announcement, then we will know who it is.

I still don’t think he’s the right man for us, as he’s not done much of note recently. 

[MikeO]

30 minutes ago, StevO said:

We get behind our team and our manager. But his team will never feel like our team to me, and he won’t feel like our manager. 

Not feeling this, if he (or any manager) takes 20/25 points from our first ten games who'd be complaining? We loved Ancelotti's pledges of undying love (which turned out to be bollocks) unconditionally, Benitez wouldn't have the goodwill Carlo did (wrongly) but if he got off to a flyer I don't see mass protests demanding he's binned.

[RuffRob]

56 minutes ago, MikeO said:

My thoughts exactly. We embraced Peter Bearsley and in reverse Steve McMahon was loved at Anfield, I don't really see why the manager's job is any different. Sure he said condescending stuff about us in the past (was his job) but if he got it he'd say all the right things I'm sure, he's far from my first choice but I won't be taking to the streets with a pitchfork if he's appointed. 

what would annoy me most about the appointment of Benitez is it would show that the people making THE KEY decisions just seem to be disjointed from the fans and character of the club. No quite sure there is a massive positive that would anywhere near outweigh the negatives of his appointment. 

Is he going to be bring 'great' players with him from his last few jobs?

Him nor his football fill with me excitement. 

So why upset a significant number of the fan base.  I just wouldn't understand the appointment, if it happened. 

 

[Gwlad]

Again, what if the significant fan base are proved wrong? We are Everton and if things aren't working out then we'll kick off against the manager and board.

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

what would annoy me most about the appointment of Benitez is it would show that the people making THE KEY decisions just seem to be disjointed from the fans and character of the club. No quite sure there is a massive positive that would anywhere near outweigh the negatives of his appointment. 

Is he going to be bring 'great' players with him from his last few jobs?

Him nor his football fill with me excitement. 

So why upset a significant number of the fan base.  I just wouldn't understand the appointment, if it happened. 

Don't disagree with any of that really but if it does happen I'll be right behind him, the PR team will feed him with some soundbites to try to turn the naysayers, and (as I said) if he gets off to a flyer people will quickly forget I think. We want success on the pitch above anything and if he delivers it nobody will be complaining about his roots.

[StevO]

11 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Not feeling this, if he (or any manager) takes 20/25 points from our first ten games who'd be complaining? We loved Ancelotti's pledges of undying love (which turned out to be bollocks) unconditionally, Benitez wouldn't have the goodwill Carlo did (wrongly) but if he got off to a flyer I don't see mass protests demanding he's binned.

Even if he does well Mike, will we ever love him? Will he feel like one of us? Will we have a connection to him? We we have the connection we had with Moyes? Or Even Roberto in the first season or so? Will we have the connection with him the reds have with him?

I want to love our manager. I want to love our players. We don’t have enough players who are that likeable, let alone loveable. 
 

I look back at some players and remember how connected to I felt to them. Baines, Jags, Cahill, Osman, Seamus, Pienaar, Naismith, Howard, even Donovan on loan. I felt like these players were like us but on the pitch. I felt the same about Moyes. I want to feel like they have the same feelings for us. With Rafa, it’s impossible to feel like that. 
 

Everton is all about how they make me feel. The connection to my Dad, my uncles, my cousins, my friends, you lot on TT. The appointment of Rafa (if it happens) doesn’t feel like I’m as connected to the club as I’d like to. 
 

That might sound like some lovey dovey crap, but that’s how it makes me feel. I’ve cried tears of sorrow and tears of joy for this club. Rafa won’t ever know how that feels, not for Everton. 

[StevO]

3 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Don't disagree with any of that really but if it does happen I'll be right behind him, the PR team will feed him with some soundbites to try to turn the naysayers, and (as I said) if he gets off to a flyer people will quickly forget I think. We want success on the pitch above anything and if he delivers it nobody will be complaining about his roots.

They will feel like PR soundbites, and the naysayers will say as much. 
I want us to be successful too, but not at all costs. It’s more than that. I’m just struggling to explain it. 
 

What was that film called where a box turned up at the house and you opened it and there was the option of winning a ridiculous amount of money but you know they kill someone if you take the money. That’s winning a trophy under Rafa. Extreme I know.

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, StevO said:

Even if he does well Mike, will we ever love him? Will he feel like one of us? Will we have a connection to him? We we have the connection we had with Moyes? Or Even Roberto in the first season or so? Will we have the connection with him the reds have with him?

I want to love our manager. I want to love our players. We don’t have enough players who are that likeable, let alone loveable. 
 

I look back at some players and remember how connected to I felt to them. Baines, Jags, Cahill, Osman, Seamus, Pienaar, Naismith, Howard, even Donovan on loan. I felt like these players were like us but on the pitch. I felt the same about Moyes. I want to feel like they have the same feelings for us. With Rafa, it’s impossible to feel like that. 
 

Everton is all about how they make me feel. The connection to my Dad, my uncles, my cousins, my friends, you lot on TT. The appointment of Rafa (if it happens) doesn’t feel like I’m as connected to the club as I’d like to. 
 

That might sound like some lovey dovey crap, but that’s how it makes me feel. I’ve cried tears of sorrow and tears of joy for this club. Rafa won’t ever know how that feels, not for Everton. 

Fair enough but think Peter Reid, born and raised red, saw the error of his ways and now a Blue legend. OK so he never played for them but nobody doubts his allegiance now. Benitez is different level for sure but nobody is beyond redemption.

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, StevO said:

They will feel like PR soundbites, and the naysayers will say as much. 
I want us to be successful too, but not at all costs. It’s more than that. I’m just struggling to explain it. 
 

What was that film called where a box turned up at the house and you opened it and there was the option of winning a ridiculous amount of money but you know they kill someone if you take the money. That’s winning a trophy under Rafa. Extreme I know.

That was a good film, if you remember the title let me know.

[StevO]

1 minute ago, MikeO said:

That was a good film, if you remember the title let me know.

The Box? Maybe.

[MikeO]

2 minutes ago, StevO said:

The Box? Maybe.

That simple https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0362478/

[StevO]

3 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Fair enough but think Peter Reid, born and raised red, saw the error of his ways and now a Blue legend. OK so he never played for them but nobody doubts his allegiance now. Benitez is different level for sure but nobody is beyond redemption.

He was, but he was never a red legend was he? He was never a major part of them being a team picking up trophy after trophy, he was never loved by them. 

I had this conversation earlier where if it was Rodgers I’d be more than happy, I think it could work. Rafa is different. He is a part of their history. Rafa is just so synonymous with their glory days and Istanbul and the likes that no matter what he does for us he’ll always be theirs. He could never be ours. So I’d never be able to feel attached to him. From his first day I’ll be looking forward to the day he goes. 

[StevO]

Just now, MikeO said:

That simple https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0362478/

Haha it was The Box

[c1982]

11 minutes ago, StevO said:

He was, but he was never a red legend was he? He was never a major part of them being a team picking up trophy after trophy, he was never loved by them. 

I had this conversation earlier where if it was Rodgers I’d be more than happy, I think it could work. Rafa is different. He is a part of their history. Rafa is just so synonymous with their glory days and Istanbul and the likes that no matter what he does for us he’ll always be theirs. He could never be ours. So I’d never be able to feel attached to him. From his first day I’ll be looking forward to the day he goes. 

To flip this - I can’t imagine too many reds happy that he may be coming to us.

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, StevO said:

He was, but he was never a red legend was he? He was never a major part of them being a team picking up trophy after trophy, he was never loved by them. 

I had this conversation earlier where if it was Rodgers I’d be more than happy, I think it could work. Rafa is different. He is a part of their history. Rafa is just so synonymous with their glory days and Istanbul and the likes that no matter what he does for us he’ll always be theirs. He could never be ours. So I’d never be able to feel attached to him. From his first day I’ll be looking forward to the day he goes. 

You'd be happy employing a failed ex Liverpool manager but not a successful one? For me he'd have a clean slate and if he led us to "glory days" nobody would remember his past. Realise I'm geographically detached from the core support so as ever don't expect my view to be widely shared.

[London Blue]

I'm not against Rafa because he was Liverpool manager, or because he was successful with them.

I'm against him because he will split the fanbase, the tensions will be exposed when we hit a rough patch.

I'm against him because there are better candidates out there that we can get.

I'm against him because he he plays negative counter football.

I'm against him because he will never "Get Everton", and to be truly successful you have to blend the team, the fans and the management and mould them, focussing on winning. A manager needs to understand the history and what it means to be an Evertonian to fully get the fans, and staff on board. He just cant do that.

[RuffRob]

Benitiez just feels a bit like a poor mans Ancelotti - very similar similar age, but not quite the same CV and with added baggage due to his strong Liverpool connection.

I would just rather see something 'fresher'. 

I will just have to get behind whoever is the manager, but think we will back in the market for another manager within the usual 18months or sooner!!

[MikeO]

11 minutes ago, London Blue said:

I'm against him because he will never "Get Everton", and to be truly successful you have to blend the team, the fans and the management and mould them, focussing on winning. A manager needs to understand the history and what it means to be an Evertonian to fully get the fans, and staff on board. He just cant do that.

What manager have we ever had who fits that profile since Kendall (Harvey's failed tenure aside)? Dunc for four games? Moyes played the part but ultimately showed his true colours, the manager you describe doesn't exist.

[Bailey]

45 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Don't disagree with any of that really but if it does happen I'll be right behind him, the PR team will feed him with some soundbites to try to turn the naysayers, and (as I said) if he gets off to a flyer people will quickly forget I think. We want success on the pitch above anything and if he delivers it nobody will be complaining about his roots.

I am not sure people will forget. As soon as there is a wobble the moans and groans will be worse than normal. 

[StevO]

19 minutes ago, c1982 said:

To flip this - I can’t imagine too many reds happy that he may be coming to us.

Win win for them. If he does well with Everton they can be smug and happy for Rafa to show how good he is, but without surpassing what he did for them. If he does bad then he’s agent Rafa. 

[StevO]

17 minutes ago, London Blue said:

I'm not against Rafa because he was Liverpool manager, or because he was successful with them.

I'm against him because he will split the fanbase, the tensions will be exposed when we hit a rough patch.

I'm against him because there are better candidates out there that we can get.

I'm against him because he he plays negative counter football.

I'm against him because he will never "Get Everton", and to be truly successful you have to blend the team, the fans and the management and mould them, focussing on winning. A manager needs to understand the history and what it means to be an Evertonian to fully get the fans, and staff on board. He just cant do that.

Yep, all this. 

[FairWooney]

not one for now but speaking of managers who "get the fans", I was listening to Cahill on the Caragher podcast, the way he talks about the game, the way he researches and his love for Everton I can easily see Cahill becoming a very good manager and an Everton manager at some point in the future.

As he himself says when asked about the potential of working with his mate Arteta, he has to earn his place before he can step up to a big job but if he did a good job early in his managerial career I'm sure he'd be welcomed and would love to come back and manage Everton.

[StevO]

7 minutes ago, MikeO said:

What manager have we ever had who fits that profile since Kendall (Harvey's failed tenure aside)? Dunc for four games? Moyes played the part but ultimately showed his true colours, the manager you describe doesn't exist.

Of course he does. Moyes did this for long enough, he left in the end and no issue with that. Roberto brought the fans together, felt very much like he got the club, bought into the history (bringing Kendall into the training ground and talking up the past, talk is cheap but he did it well). They were managers that felt like they were part of us. They didn’t turn out perfect obviously. 

[StevO]

2 minutes ago, FairWooney said:

not one for now but speaking of managers who "get the fans", I was listening to Cahill on the Caragher podcast, the way he talks about the game, the way he researches and his love for Everton I can easily see Cahill becoming a very good manager and an Everton manager at some point in the future.

As he himself says when asked about the potential of working with his mate Arteta, he has to earn his place before he can step up to a big job but if he did a good job early in his managerial career I'm sure he'd be welcomed and would love to come back and manage Everton.

That was a great podcast. That one reminded me how much I loved that team. 

[StevO]

Anyone wants to know why we shouldn’t hire Rafa, the answers are all over this thread. He’s not even here yet and the fans are split over him. 

[London Blue]

2 minutes ago, MikeO said:

What manager have we ever had who fits that profile since Kendall (Harvey's failed tenure aside)? Dunc for four games? Moyes played the part but ultimately showed his true colours, the manager you describe doesn't exist.

Bobby got us, so did Moyes for all his faults. They both united the fans, and the club, I admit Bobby was only for 18 months, but he did get us.

[chicagoblue]

5 minutes ago, StevO said:

Anyone wants to know why we shouldn’t hire Rafa, the answers are all over this thread. He’s not even here yet and the fans are split over him. 

Yeah, but who wouldn't we be split over.  Guess you're saying this a different degree of split but it's painfully clear that there are no universally preferred candidates.

 

I've come around to the view that the club are purely looking at this as a "get to Bramley" situation.  The money involved and the whole future of the club are wrapped up in that and they're convinced that the Spanish waiter is the safest pair of hands to keep us safely ticking over.  Let's not forget that most of the younger more exciting managers that have been mooted would be bringing a very different style of play (probably for the better) but we have a seriously limited current squad and a very low ceiling for FFP.  Fact of the matter is that we can't overhaul the squad right now (at least without selling off Dom, Richy, Digne, Pickford).  I see a small transfer budget over the next few years and that combined with the huge risk embodied in the stadium makes a "Carlo Jr" the obvious choice for a bottom line focused board.

 

Might work.

 

Feels a bit soulless though doesn't it.

[MikeO]

7 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Bobby got us, so did Moyes for all his faults. They both united the fans, and the club, I admit Bobby was only for 18 months, but he did get us.

OK (I don't agree) but even if you're right that's two managers since Catterick. Who are you suggesting is likely to fit the brief?

[FairWooney]

12 minutes ago, StevO said:

That was a great podcast. That one reminded me how much I loved that team. 

yeah, love listening to him talk about the team and his passion for the club.  But also hugely impressed by the way he approaches games and the level of detail he went into as a player.  Could see him being really thorough as a manager and also a good positive people manager.  Certainly wouldn't stand for anyone that wasn't willing to give it their all!

Love his love of Hibbo!

 

[StevO]

9 minutes ago, chicagoblue said:

Yeah, but who wouldn't we be split over.  Guess you're saying this a different degree of split but it's painfully clear that there are no universally preferred candidates.

I see it more as there are managers that won’t be everyone choice, but not necessarily “split” the fan base. 
 

There are only a few things in my lifetime that I remember properly splitting the fan base, plenty of things that we’ve all disagreed on, but not with so much passion and anger.

Destination Kirkby. 
Bill Kenwright’s time as owner. 
Rafa Benitez potentially being our manager.