Demarai Gray

[seve]

Not sure about this, Iwobi has had years of below average performances, on Saturday he did what is the minimum requirement for a footballer, he put in effort, work rate, and desire. I'm more inclined to ask where that has been all this time, his passing, and influence on the game were not great, but the effort was top draw.

My question is do you put in  a man who has arguably been our best player all season, or someone who decided to turn up to impress the new manager. 

[Bill]

13 hours ago, London Blue said:

5 Goals and 2 assists in 20 league games in a struggling side. He was involved in 25% of our goals, so he is just as much of an option as anyone else in the squad. Under Frank starts will be determined on performance in training and matches which is as it should be. 

Respect you Bill but that's my opinion and I don't think it's going to change based on the above.

I wouldn't dream of trying to change your opinion LB, we're all different in the way we think.

I'll say it again ... He will get games if the Manager rotates but it would be a crime if he left out Iwobi after he had the best game he's ever had in a blue shirt, now that would be soul destroying.

[RPG]

19 hours ago, Bill said:

I wouldn't dream of trying to change your opinion LB, we're all different in the way we think.

I'll say it again ... He will get games if the Manager rotates but it would be a crime if he left out Iwobi after he had the best game he's ever had in a blue shirt, now that would be soul destroying.

I tend to agree. Iwobi has now set a standard that he has to maintain so he should start the next game. But if he fails to maintain that standard then he should be subbed off. If whoever comes on for him plays really well, then they should start the next game. That way, subject to tactical changes requiring a different set up, the players know that selection is largely down to how well they train and play.

[Matt]

3 hours ago, Shukes said:

It is a headache. Because the flip side is a player that’s been performing and gets injured could be dropped for a player that turns up with one good performance. Not a great message to send out.

My view would be that Gray plays a wide role, while Iwobi had a free role. The team would be dependant on our opponents and tactics for the game.

In Frank we trust !

He's not been dropped though, he's been injured. The message is train better than Iwobi once youre fit if you want your place back, and the message to Iwobi is you've played well last game but DM is fit again and impressing in training, be better than him. 

[RuffRob]

I don't know why people get so worked up about the 'starting 11' and who starts and who gets dropped, we seem to have a fixation on getting all the 'best' players in the starting 11.

Quality of opposition, tactics, team mates available or not, recent past and future game work loads, timing of impact from bench for maximum effectiveness in any particular game all need to come in to it as much as who did 'best' the last couple of training session before the game. 

Players just need to be ready each and every time to make their impact on the game whether they start or come of the bench.

 

[Sibdane]

32 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

I don't know why people get so worked up about the 'starting 11' and who starts and who gets dropped, we seem to have a fixation on getting all the 'best' players in the starting 11.

Quality of opposition, tactics, team mates available or not, recent past and future game work loads, timing of impact from bench for maximum effectiveness in any particular game all need to come in to it as much as who did 'best' the last couple of training session before the game. 

Players just need to be ready each and every time to make their impact on the game whether they start or come of the bench.

 

True, but you also have to consider that the manager has a style of play that shows regardless of the opposition. Iwobi played well and deserves a chance to prove he can be flexible and play well against different opponents with tweaked tactics. It’s rare for a manager to just completely change his philosophy just because of the opposition. 
 

I won’t discount all the variables you mentioned. They’re important, but I think a good manager plays him in the next game barring any injury. Does that mean Lampard is a bad manager if he doesn’t play him? Of course not. 

[Cornish Steve]

A good manager does take into account each player's skills, form, emotions, hopes, and aspirations. A great manager ensures these factors, though, don't get in the way of winning. It's all about what's best for the team.

[RuffRob]

I just think the term 'rotate' in more in keeping with modern professional football - rather than 'being dropped'. You want to keep your top 18 player's match fit, sharp and happy as best you can. Players in the modern game have to expect a degree of rotation and not be overly sensitive about not being the starting 11 every single game - if we are going to play a high tempo press, then rotation is going to vital especially if we have two games a week.

 

 

[London Blue]

9 hours ago, Bill said:

I wouldn't dream of trying to change your opinion LB, we're all different in the way we think.

I'll say it again ... He will get games if the Manager rotates but it would be a crime if he left out Iwobi after he had the best game he's ever had in a blue shirt, now that would be soul destroying.

I think we agree that places have to be earnt and Iwobi earnt his chance through training and the performance in the last game. As long as he impresses in training he starts the next match. Its the way it should be.

[MikeO]

12 minutes ago, London Blue said:

I think we agree that places have to be earnt and Iwobi earnt his chance through training and the performance in the last game. As long as he impresses in training he starts the next match. Its the way it should be.

[London Blue]

41 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Are you going to take your helmet off too?

[MC11]

Gray if fit may start on the bench at the weekend. But after that he’s back in the side full time when fit. Not even questionable.
 

Iwobi will be anonymous on Saturday that’s how history is played out. Prove me wrong Alex. Regardless he doesn’t keep Gray out this side EVER
 

[Gwlad all over]

Get over it, I think Frank will start what he thinks is the strongest team to start against Southampton and Iwobi should be in it.

[Romey 1878]

He wasn't in any of the training pictures from yesterday so it's looking doubtful he'll be available on Saturday.

[Formby]

Gray is a much better footballer than Iwobi: more explosive, more dynamic, quicker on the front foot, faster, better shooter, better crosser. I'm not against Iwobi playing in certain systems, but in a straight swap, I would always have Gray. If he's fit, he plays for me. If he plays badly, he gets pulled.

[dunlopp9987]

4 minutes ago, Formby said:

Gray is a much better footballer than Iwobi: more explosive, more dynamic, quicker on the front foot, faster, better shooter, better crosser. I'm not against Iwobi playing in certain systems, but in a straight swap, I would always have Gray. If he's fit, he plays for me. If he plays badly, he gets pulled.

Totally agree. At the same time, what sort of message does it send when you get an opportunity to start and have arguably the best performance you've had since joining the club, and then are benched the next time out? Think Iwobi deserves the start this weekend.

Either way I think it's irrelevant as it sounds like Gray will be missing, or at best on the bench.

[Bill]

16 minutes ago, Formby said:

Gray is a much better footballer than Iwobi: more explosive, more dynamic, quicker on the front foot, faster, better shooter, better crosser. I'm not against Iwobi playing in certain systems, but in a straight swap, I would always have Gray. If he's fit, he plays for me. If he plays badly, he gets pulled.

I'm sure that would apply to everybody.

[Romey 1878]

I can't see Lampard saying this and then not starting him again, whether Gray is fit or not 

Quote

 

“It was hard to pick a man of the match out of those 11 players but, for me, it was Alex.

“The reason was the work ethic he showed, his fitness throughout the game, the way he picked up the positions we wanted off the ball and kept wanting to receive the ball and drive and play.

“He played because he trained so well and that is something I stand behind strongly as a coach.

“Sometimes you pick a team and people outside don’t understand why you pick a player.

“I understand that, too.

“But when someone trains as well as he has [he deserves to play]. All I want is for Alex to have belief and feel the talent he has – I am not sure I expected that 90 minutes of work-rate. He hadn’t played for me... and, wow, I thought he was outstanding."

 

 

[Palfy]

8 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I can't see Lampard saying this and then not starting him again, whether Gray is fit or not 

 

That’s what every player wants to hear that if you work hard you get the opportunity’s and no one’s a guaranteed pick, team’s progress when there’s competition for places. Well done Iwobi and good on Lampard for recognising the effort.  

[Btay]

7 hours ago, Formby said:

Gray is a much better footballer than Iwobi: more explosive, more dynamic, quicker on the front foot, faster, better shooter, better crosser. I'm not against Iwobi playing in certain systems, but in a straight swap, I would always have Gray. If he's fit, he plays for me. If he plays badly, he gets pulled.

Gray has had his off days as well though. He has the x factor in him that can win a game from nothing.

I don’t want any guarantee starters though - form/performances/training merit selection. Gray is going to have to be firing to get back into this team and it only benefits Everton

[Wiggytop]

Gray would be my first choice based on this season, after Saturday Iwobi does deserve to keep his place, which it looks like he will as Gray is out, I’d normally be unhappy at seeing Iwobi starting or even on the team sheet ( as a walked to my seat last Saturday the team was being announced, 3 stewards were talking to each other, and I heard them say what the fuck, why is he starting Iwobi and most would agree) but if he can continue it gives us a much stronger squad and we can allow players to fully recover from injury, I’m sure we have been brining payers back too soon.

[Romey 1878]

He's now back in training and in the squad tomorrow.

[nyblue23]

On 25/02/2022 at 09:16, Romey 1878 said:

He's now back in training and in the squad tomorrow.

This but again. And not tomorrow, Sunday.

[Shukes]

I think all can see how creatively we drop off a cliff when he’s not on the pitch now.

We need this lad back and running at players to push defences backwards. Him and Gordon opposite sides.

[Bill]

Still not sure about Gray, he started off well with goals and assists but recently looks like a carbon copy of Ross Barkley, running down blind alleys til he loses the ball. I don't think he is the answer.

[Palfy]

8 hours ago, Shukes said:

I think all can see how creatively we drop off a cliff when he’s not on the pitch now.

We need this lad back and running at players to push defences backwards. Him and Gordon opposite sides.

I would do that in a 433 but not so sure in a 442, then you have the issue who you play up front DCL or Richarlison, for me at the moment I would go with Richarlison just because of match fitness and work rate, but definitely need Gray back he’s a miss without a doubt. 

[MC11]

Another player who’s not been up for the fight. Ghosts in and out of games and of late hasn’t been in them at all. 
 

Lad on the train home yesterday nailed it. Benitez played to Townsends and Grays strengths as they were his signings. Now that’s gone they are struggling. More so Gray.

[patto]

3 minutes ago, MC11 said:

Another player who’s not been up for the fight. Ghosts in and out of games and of late hasn’t been in them at all. 
 

Lad on the train home yesterday nailed it. Benitez played to Townsends and Grays strengths as they were his signings. Now that’s gone they are struggling. More so Gray.

He has been injured and also I'll do it's going to affect him he will be used more now we don't have many options.

[MC11]

2 hours ago, patto said:

He has been injured and also I'll do it's going to affect him he will be used more now we don't have many options.

Don’t get me wrong he should be starting but he’s fell off a cliff in terms of performance 

[Bailey]

3 hours ago, MC11 said:

Another player who’s not been up for the fight. Ghosts in and out of games and of late hasn’t been in them at all. 
 

Lad on the train home yesterday nailed it. Benitez played to Townsends and Grays strengths as they were his signings. Now that’s gone they are struggling. More so Gray.

I definitely agree about Gray. He was Benitez's only real attacking outlet. I think he enjoyed being that main man. 

[Hafnia]

10 hours ago, Bailey said:

I definitely agree about Gray. He was Benitez's only real attacking outlet. I think he enjoyed being that main man. 

Well that’s tough shit isn’t it.  I’m sure there are lots of things players prefer - Digne preferred to attack rather than defend and fell out with Rafa about it, as a fan I prefer a player doing what they are asked to the best of their ability. 
 

all hands to the pump, they can ask frank for special considerations in the summer but for most of them they will be getting asked to clear their lockers. 

 

[Formby]

18 hours ago, MC11 said:

Another player who’s not been up for the fight. Ghosts in and out of games and of late hasn’t been in them at all. 
 

Lad on the train home yesterday nailed it. Benitez played to Townsends and Grays strengths as they were his signings. Now that’s gone they are struggling. More so Gray.

Which begs the question why Lampard has not done that. Why do we always play players in their wrong positions? And not to their strengths? It's a real Everton curio, that.

Gray has certainly not come back the same. Trying to do too much, I guess, but that's what happens when the whole team is misfiring. He is trying to do it all himself.

[Formby]

13 hours ago, Bailey said:

I definitely agree about Gray. He was Benitez's only real attacking outlet. I think he enjoyed being that main man. 

Benitez got a real tune out of him. Hopefully, Lampard can, too. We need him.

[Hafnia]

22 minutes ago, Formby said:

Which begs the question why Lampard has not done that. Why do we always play players in their wrong positions? And not to their strangths? It's a real Everton curio, that.

Gray has certainly not come back the same. Trying to do too much, I guess, but that's what happens when the whole team is misfiring. He is trying to do it all himself.

is the case that Gray can only play if we are counter attacking? I don't think so.  

When we bought Gray the general consensus from Leicester fans was that he has bags of talent but is frustratingly inconsistent - he would be mustard or poor.

 

[Formby]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

is the case that Gray can only play if we are counter attacking? I don't think so.  

When we bought Gray the general consensus from Leicester fans was that he has bags of talent but is frustratingly inconsistent - he would be mustard or poor.

 

I think Gray benefited from Benitez's trust and a clear set of instructions which worked very well, particularly in a counterattacking setup. At the moment, he is making generally wrong choices, which is very frustrating. That could because the team is set up differently, or that Lampard hasn't told him what to do, or he's just not getting it (he is inconsistent). We could really do with Lampard teasing some quality performances out of him becuase we have precious little quality anywhere else.    

[Hafnia]

11 minutes ago, Formby said:

I think Gray benefited from Benitez's trust and a clear set of instructions which worked very well, particularly in a counterattacking setup. At the moment, he is making generally wrong choices, which is very frustrating. That could because the team is set up differently, or that Lampard hasn't told him what to do, or he's just not getting it (he is inconsistent). We could really do with Lampard teasing some quality performances out of him becuase we have precious little quality anywhere else.    

Gordon doesn't seem to have a problem with the instructions and he is the least experienced member of the team.  He didn't have a problem with Rafa's instructions either.....  Digne did.

Personally I'm at the point where I don't give a shit if the players like the instructions or not, i'm yet to hear a manager instruct players to go out and not track runners, to not block crosses getting into the box - but this is what the player seem to be doing.

A bunch of absolute cowards.

Some of our fans are turning into a bit of a joke too..... critiquing managers based on who they managed before, selling players they should or shouldn't sell.  I didn't want Rafa but I found the incessant nonsense about him from fans pathetic - it played into the players hands when they downed tools...... "lets blame the kopite".

Now it seem Lampard is tactically inept or whatever.......  ffs he is managing a group of players who can look like they are gonna dominate a game in the first 15 minutes to looking like they are taking part in a charity match the next 75.

Lampard is the one constant we need in this club - he has the balls and integrity to stand up to the nonsense that the other managers just sucked up to earn a few quid.  He is the first manager i've seen look genuinely angry with the players since Moyes. 

 

 

 

[Wiggytop]

21 hours ago, MC11 said:

Lad on the train home yesterday nailed it. Benitez played to Townsends and Grays strengths as they were his signings. Now that’s gone they are struggling. More so Gray.

Initially I agreed with that, but reading it again I’m not so sure, if he played to their strengths how come we were loosing so many games, it’s a bit too simplistic.

[Cornish Steve]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

Gordon doesn't seem to have a problem with the instructions and he is the least experienced member of the team. 

Exactly.

Gray was a nice surprise initially. For sure, he's not contributing right now the way he was before, but I don't think that's anything to do with manager at all. First, he demonstrated his value mostly during a run of easier games early in the season. Next, he became injured and has hardly had a chance to play recently - two games? DC-L is taking a while longer to return to form, so no surprise that Gray needs time, too. Let's see how things are in mid-April or May.

[Cornish Steve]

16 minutes ago, Wiggytop said:

Initially I agreed with that, but reading it again I’m not so sure, if he played to their strengths how come we were loosing so many games, it’s a bit too simplistic.

Agreed. We played our easiest games at the start of the season. It's no surprise that Townsend, in particular, has tailed off since then. It's pretty much the same with Gray. How quick we are to forget the pathetic run of games we had from October to January.

[MC11]

1 hour ago, Wiggytop said:

Initially I agreed with that, but reading it again I’m not so sure, if he played to their strengths how come we were loosing so many games, it’s a bit too simplistic.

Quite simply because Benitez Alienated the whole squad…. Slowly but surely the wheels came off. To the point where every single players confidence has hit rock bottom. 

[Bailey]

12 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Well that’s tough shit isn’t it.  I’m sure there are lots of things players prefer - Digne preferred to attack rather than defend and fell out with Rafa about it, as a fan I prefer a player doing what they are asked to the best of their ability. 
 

all hands to the pump, they can ask frank for special considerations in the summer but for most of them they will be getting asked to clear their lockers. 

 

Ahh I forgot you were present when Digne had that bust up with Benitez.

Its really weird, because I am pretty sure he is defending under Gerrard and hasn't fallen out with him (yet). He also didnt fall out with the previous managers who also asked him to defend? 

Going back to Gray, its obviously a lot easier as a quick, quality dribbler to look good on the counter attack. Doing the same against a more settled defence is a lot harder. Its not about doing what they are being asked to do or not, its a case of how easy it is to implement those instructions.

As it stands, I don't know what instructions the wide players are being asked to at the moment. 

[Bill]

He still runs down blind alleys and continually loses the Ball. Its no wonder we got him for next to nothing.

Townsend has been the same, started off with a few decent games but is now showing what you get when you shop in the bargain basement.

[Formby]

19 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Agreed. We played our easiest games at the start of the season. It's no surprise that Townsend, in particular, has tailed off since then. It's pretty much the same with Gray. How quick we are to forget the pathetic run of games we had from October to January.

We've had plenty of easy games since and lost them. If we'd won even half of them, we wouldn't be talking about relegation now. The dismal run following the Man Utd draw, compounded by injuries and loss of form (or Benitez's dismal tactics and poor man management (delete as aappropriate)), has never been arrested.

[Formby]

13 hours ago, Bailey said:

Going back to Gray, its obviously a lot easier as a quick, quality dribbler to look good on the counter attack. Doing the same against a more settled defence is a lot harder. Its not about doing what they are being asked to do or not, its a case of how easy it is to implement those instructions.

As it stands, I don't know what instructions the wide players are being asked to at the moment. 

Agree with all this. 

[Gwlad all over]

9 hours ago, Bill said:

He still runs down blind alleys and continually loses the Ball. Its no wonder we got him for next to nothing.

Townsend has been the same, started off with a few decent games but is now showing what you get when you shop in the bargain basement.

Looks like that's us for the foreseeable future, especially if the unthinkable happens.

[Romey 1878]

We'd make a nice profit on a very inconsistent player. I'm in!

 

[c1982]

He’s been great but anything around £25m and we’d be mad to turn it down.

[Matt]

He was excellent at the beginning of the season before his injury. I don't see anything in this.

[Gwlad all over]

Citeh all over again.

[c1982]

Sell Gray - sign Sarr from Watford off the back of a poor season - I think he’s class and could be the right time to swoop.

[Hafnia]

49 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Sell Gray - sign Sarr from Watford off the back of a poor season - I think he’s class and could be the right time to swoop.

I think he’d still command a hefty fee. 

[Heath]

To be honest, I like Gray and would prefer it if we didn't sell him, but if Newcastle were to put a decent offer on the table I can't see it being turned down.

[Shukes]

We should be looking at keeping him. Can be a game changer on a good day. On his bad days he is still dangerous. 
 

Use him the right way and he is a very useful player.

[Romey 1878]

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2650237/grays-everton-game-changing-ambition

[Fosse Captain]

Only sell him if we get a ‘can’t turn down’ offer.
As in something really obscene . 
£35 million plus.
That kind of madness. 

Good squad player who will rotate well and can change a game too. Always looks dangerous, if a bit inconsistent  

[Gwlad all over]

I like his attitude and hope he can continue to improve with Frank and co.

[Matt]

He was so important to us pre-injury last season. He's still got a big part to play for us in my opinion and I think he's capable too. 

[Btay]

His performances dropped after that goal against Arsenal. Needs to stop cutting in for the wonder shot every time and move the ball around. Has all the ability in the world but he needs to be better.

[Formby]

1 hour ago, Btay said:

His performances dropped after that goal against Arsenal. Needs to stop cutting in for the wonder shot every time and move the ball around. Has all the ability in the world but he needs to be better.

For sure, but it's nice to have a player that actually has ability. We need more of them!

[Btay]

2 hours ago, Formby said:

For sure, but it's nice to have a player that actually has ability. We need more of them!

Yes but he limits how effective he can be with some of his decisions. All I’m saying is he could be a lot better by doing a bit less in certain moments.