Kalidou Koulibaly

[RuffRob]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

After all the talk of "restrictions" in the press conference this would be a stupid move tbh. Signing a player of his age that we don't actually need when we have positions that are crying out to be filled seems wrong to me.

He's the sort of signing you make once you've got the players in that you need if you're facing restrictions in the transfer market.

This also seem a strange one to me, you wouldn't think biggish money on a 30 year old CB would be a priority - Unless others in this position are being planned to be shipped out to make room. 

He has been rumoured this window when Ancelotti was still in the hot seat. So sounds like more than just a Benitez request. 

He's is a very good player though. Naploi fans call him 'The Wall'.

It sounds very much as though an opening bid has been put in. 

[Aidan]

As long as Michael Kean isn't seen as out 'best' centre back next season I'm happy.

[Hafnia]

For me it's a case of get the best players that we can.

I agree it's not the most financially sound signing but he is world class and would increase our appeal and retention of better players. 

[markjazzbassist]

this proves to me that we still haven't learned how to correctly build a team and are making every season "this is it" which is stupid for a club of our size.  we have 5 solid CB, that's the last thing we need.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

6 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

this proves to me that we still haven't learned how to correctly build a team and are making every season "this is it" which is stupid for a club of our size.  we have 5 solid CB, that's the last thing we need.

If we only signed Koulibaly and didn’t address the issues at RB & RM I would agree. Those positions absolutely have to be our priority but I just think if we can sort the right hand side out and get a chance of signing this lad then we should take it

[dunlopp9987]

19 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

this proves to me that we still haven't learned how to correctly build a team and are making every season "this is it" which is stupid for a club of our size.  we have 5 solid CB, that's the last thing we need.

"5 solid CB" is grossly overstating their ability. We have 2 solid CB, 2 who are passable, and 1 who is unproven.

I'm with @duncanmckenzieismagic, if we can get the right hand sorted out and ship out either/both of Mina and Holgate, bring him in.

[Makis]

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

this proves to me that we still haven't learned how to correctly build a team and are making every season "this is it" which is stupid for a club of our size.  we have 5 solid CB, that's the last thing we need.

So we signed him already?

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, dunlopp9987 said:

"5 solid CB" is grossly overstating their ability. We have 2 solid CB, 2 who are passable, and 1 who is unproven.

I'm with @duncanmckenzieismagic, if we can get the right hand sorted out and ship out either/both of Mina and Holgate, bring him in.

i disagree, holgate was a beast under koeman, mina albeit unorthodox has been our best CB at times.  branthwaite is unproven but he did well in the time he played.  it doesn't make sense to sign an old CB for massive money.  the whole "brands buys young players on the cusp" has been proved wrong time and again.  we are another west ham just buying the best 27-31 year old on the market now and hoping for a miracle.  there is a reason other clubs are surpassing us, it's called long term vision.

[Palfy]

7 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

i disagree, holgate was a beast under koeman, mina albeit unorthodox has been our best CB at times.  branthwaite is unproven but he did well in the time he played.  it doesn't make sense to sign an old CB for massive money.  the whole "brands buys young players on the cusp" has been proved wrong time and again.  we are another west ham just buying the best 27-31 year old on the market now and hoping for a miracle.  there is a reason other clubs are surpassing us, it's called long term vision.

There’s a reason for this Usmanov and Moshiri are looking for instant success, and they are trying to buy it and not earn it or work for it. 

[dunlopp9987]

3 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

i disagree, holgate was a beast under koeman, mina albeit unorthodox has been our best CB at times.  branthwaite is unproven but he did well in the time he played.  it doesn't make sense to sign an old CB for massive money.  the whole "brands buys young players on the cusp" has been proved wrong time and again.  we are another west ham just buying the best 27-31 year old on the market now and hoping for a miracle.  there is a reason other clubs are surpassing us, it's called long term vision.

That was 5 years ago, Mark

I partially agree with your sentiment about Brands. While I too am frustrated by the signing of players who might be starting their decline, to say that he doesn't buy young players on the cusp is wrong. Digne, Richarlison, Godfrey, potentially Branthwaite. Not to mention who knows what might've been had Gbamin not been injured, and he took a chance on Kean, who looked primed to break out.

 

[markjazzbassist]

11 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

That was 5 years ago, Mark

I partially agree with your sentiment about Brands. While I too am frustrated by the signing of players who might be starting their decline, to say that he doesn't buy young players on the cusp is wrong. Digne, Richarlison, Godfrey, potentially Branthwaite. Not to mention who knows what might've been had Gbamin not been injured, and he took a chance on Kean, who looked primed to break out.

 

holgate was excellent until he got injured, then others stepped up and he's been playing catch up ever since.  his attitude is an issue no doubt, but he has the skillset and the physical attributes.  Rio is working with him and Godfrey and there is a possibility some of that is the mental side, which would be wonderful.

 

branthwaite wasn't signed by brands, he was signed by Unsworth for the U23, just like DCL.  as far as signing 5 young players on the cusp, i want a whole side of them.  i want long term.   not a couple here and there.  yes i see the value in a vet, and on a free someone like that could be helpful and i'm for it.  but spending big on aging players (just my opinion here) is not smart.  but it ain't my money.  

[Btay]

I wouldn’t say any of our CB’s are solid as yet. Godfrey is the closest and he is there on potential. No bigger clubs are knocking for Mina/Keane and the latter isn’t even getting into the international squad. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

49 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

holgate was excellent until he got injured, then others stepped up and he's been playing catch up ever since.  his attitude is an issue no doubt, but he has the skillset and the physical attributes.  Rio is working with him and Godfrey and there is a possibility some of that is the mental side, which would be wonderful.

 

branthwaite wasn't signed by brands, he was signed by Unsworth for the U23, just like DCL.  as far as signing 5 young players on the cusp, i want a whole side of them.  i want long term.   not a couple here and there.  yes i see the value in a vet, and on a free someone like that could be helpful and i'm for it.  but spending big on aging players (just my opinion here) is not smart.  but it ain't my money.  

I get what you are saying but we are not talking about bringing in Craig Dawson here, this fella is one of the best CB’s in the world

As I’ve said before I don’t think our current CB options are as strong as some people think but either way Koulibaly is better than all of them

We need to start winning trophies or any young players we do sign will just jump ship as soon as soon as the bigger clubs start circling so for me , while I don’t want to see us go back to the Walter Smith days of us being a last pay cheque for ageing pros on their way out , we need to find a happy medium, yes we need to be finding the next Koulibaly early doors but bringing in proven quality for the here and now is just as important

 

 

[Cornish Steve]

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

holgate was excellent until he got injured, then others stepped up and he's been playing catch up ever since.  his attitude is an issue no doubt, but he has the skillset and the physical attributes.  Rio is working with him and Godfrey and there is a possibility some of that is the mental side, which would be wonderful.

 

branthwaite wasn't signed by brands, he was signed by Unsworth for the U23, just like DCL.  as far as signing 5 young players on the cusp, i want a whole side of them.  i want long term.   not a couple here and there.  yes i see the value in a vet, and on a free someone like that could be helpful and i'm for it.  but spending big on aging players (just my opinion here) is not smart.  but it ain't my money.  

Holgate has the potential to be very good, but his attitude needs to become more like Godfrey's. His arrogance will be his downfall.

[Hafnia]

7 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

this proves to me that we still haven't learned how to correctly build a team and are making every season "this is it" which is stupid for a club of our size.  we have 5 solid CB, that's the last thing we need.

You've counted 5 solid centre backs?

3 look good on their day - not solid.  1 potentially very good but young, 

[Goodison Glory]

I see this as a great move. Whenever you go into a new role (business or sport) you want to surround yourself with people you trust. This is even more critical if the company (team) you are joining is under performing.....If you know a guy you trust and can get results...you bring them in and use that as the foundation to build from. 

having a rock star (albeit aging) at the back might even help bring Godfrey along even more, might even help calamity Yerry be consistent, might help holgate get his shit together. 

[markjazzbassist]

23 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

You've counted 5 solid centre backs?

3 look good on their day - not solid.  1 potentially very good but young, 

We only play with 2 amigo.  You don’t win games with CB.  Pep has won with lesser CB’s year in and out.  We are dying for goals and creativity and pace, so we go for a CB, Everton that.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

4 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

We only play with 2 amigo.  You don’t win games with CB.  Pep has won with lesser CB’s year in and out.  We are dying for goals and creativity and pace, so we go for a CB, Everton that.

Unless you want to play 3 at the back

[MikeO]

1 minute ago, markjazzbassist said:

We only play with 2 amigo.  You don’t win games with CB.  Pep has won with lesser CB’s year in and out.  We are dying for goals and creativity and pace, so we go for a CB, Everton that.

I'm sorry but that's just plain stupid. Arsenal's invicibles? Built on defence. Liverpool's title? VVD transformed them. ManU? Ferdinand and whoever was next to him. Ratcliffe and Labone going back into our history, you need players in every position to win games, and solidity at the back is the foundation.

[markjazzbassist]

1 minute ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Unless you want to play 3 at the back

Not a formation Rafa uses much.  4 at the back in liverpool, Valencia, napoli, dalian.  Only at Newcastle did he try 3 at the back, but he still preferred the 4.  His most used setup is 4231.  Not likely to ingratiate himself with our fan base playing 5 defenders.  

[markjazzbassist]

2 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I'm sorry but that's just plain stupid. Arsenal's invicibles? Built on defence. Liverpool's title? VVD transformed them. ManU? Ferdinand and whoever was next to him. Ratcliffe and Labone going back into our history, you need players in every position to win games, and solidity at the back is the foundation.

Talking about the modern game mike.  Liverpool won because of that gnarly front 3 and their pace, city broke the goal scoring records, it’s about scoring  now.  City plays center mids and fullbacks as CB plenty, they do fine.  They aren’t sitting back and absorbing pressure.  Totally different game now.  

[Btay]

17 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

We only play with 2 amigo.  You don’t win games with CB.  Pep has won with lesser CB’s year in and out.  We are dying for goals and creativity and pace, so we go for a CB, Everton that.

Goals win games but defence wins titles. Always believed this mate 

[MikeO]

Just now, markjazzbassist said:

Talking about the modern game mike.  Liverpool won because of that gnarly front 3 and their pace, city broke the goal scoring records, it’s about scoring  now.  City plays center mids and fullbacks as CB plenty, they do fine.  They aren’t sitting back and absorbing pressure.  Totally different game now.  

I want to respond to that without seeming to be condescending but I can't think of a way to do it, so I'll just keep quiet.

[dunlopp9987]

11 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I want to respond to that without seeming to be condescending but I can't think of a way to do it, so I'll just keep quiet.

[Hafnia]

33 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

We only play with 2 amigo.  You don’t win games with CB.  Pep has won with lesser CB’s year in and out.  We are dying for goals and creativity and pace, so we go for a CB, Everton that.

You lose games with centre backs though.  Look at what happened to Liverpool when they signed VVD  ..... Koulibaily is that level.  Bigger though.  I didn't read the replies above but I just did so editing ....

Having a centre half like VVD enables your middle players and forward players to commit.  

The Everton side of 84 were not scared to lose the ball because of the defence and goalkeeper.  It really does make that much of a difference ....  Watch a team attack when they worry about their defence - it's a non entity. 

 

[markjazzbassist]

15 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

You lose games with centre backs though.  Look at what happened to Liverpool when they signed VVD  ..... Koulibaily is that level.  Bigger though.  I didn't read the replies above but I just did so editing ....

Having a centre half like VVD enables your middle players and forward players to commit.  

The Everton side of 84 were not scared to lose the ball because of the defence and goalkeeper.  It really does make that much of a difference ....  Watch a team attack when they worry about their defence - it's a non entity. 

 

Yes let’s use liverpool as an example.  They lose VVD and play bench players and youngsters who are then getting injured and have to play Fabinho out of position and more youngsters.  We’re they relegated?  Lower half of the table?  Fuck they got 3rd!!  Now is VVD the difference between 3rd and 1st you bet.  We are 10th!!!  Let’s worry about the absolute holes in our squad before we nitpick already above average positions.  Let’s get to 3-4 place and then worry about getting the worldie at every position.

[MikeO]

15 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Yes let’s use liverpool as an example.  They lose VVD and play bench players and youngsters who are then getting injured and have to play Fabinho out of position and more youngsters.  We’re they relegated?  Lower half of the table?  Fuck they got 3rd!!  Now is VVD the difference between 3rd and 1st you bet.  We are 10th!!!  Let’s worry about the absolute holes in our squad before we nitpick already above average positions.  Let’s get to 3-4 place and then worry about getting the worldie at every position.

[London Blue]

It all depends on how much money we have to spend, both on transfers and wages. There are positions we need  to fill before we sign him.

Right back

Right winger

Left winger

Creative midfielder

Striker if Kean goes.

Those are positions we simply have to fill for us to be balanced, we have no wingers, we lack pace and penetration on the flanks, we do not have a consistent PL right back as great as Coleman has been, he cant be our first choice.  We lack a creative midfielder, James will be great if he stays, but he is not going to play a full season and please dont mention Siggy.

Once we have those positions filled then lets talk about Koulibaly, who is a great player, although I have concerns about his pace and very high wages. 

[Zoo 2.0]

All the best teams and champions have a solid defence, it's the absolute backbone of any eleven. It's absolutely critical that we sign a centre back this summer and anyone suggesting otherwise is mental.

Without sounding rude some of the posts in this thread have genuinely made me speechless - one of the best teams in the Premier League's era was Mourinho's 2005 title winning Chelsea as they conceded 15 goals. Don't need to do much up top when you're conceding none every week.

[StevO]

6 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

 "brands buys young players on the cusp" 

More made up shit, by fans, making assumptions. Don’t believe everything you read.