StevO Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 34 minutes ago, Bailey said: You have to balance that off against the fact that none of our wingers are doing that. The one game Lookman did play really well in he did all you asked, but I agree he needs to do that consistently and not just in one game. The other two important things about Barnes and Gray in particular is that they permanently play on the counter attack whereas we will generally have more control of the ball and therefore there is less space for them to play. A little off piste but the one thing Martinez used to get right was that he knew how to work the ball so that it left the defender 1 v 1 with the winger. He made Calumn McManaman look like a world beater just he could isolate the full back and take him on. Its one of the same reason Pep keeps his wingers both so wide. By the time any of ours get decent ball they have normally been doubled up. I find it so frustrating because he has everything in his ability to do the typical winger stuff, getting wide, beating men, picking a cross out. I just want to see him do more of it, I just don’t think he will. I agree completely, there were spells he would do the same with Gerry. He had a run in the side where he seemed to be dropping a ball at the front post two or three times again, he had the time to place it where he wanted it because he had isolated the defender. Roberto was such a good counter attacking coach, it makes me wonder why he wanted Tika Taka so much when it clearly wasn’t his strength. Matt, Bailey and Romey 1878 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 5 hours ago, StevO said: I find it so frustrating because he has everything in his ability to do the typical winger stuff, getting wide, beating men, picking a cross out. I just want to see him do more of it, I just don’t think he will. I agree completely, there were spells he would do the same with Gerry. He had a run in the side where he seemed to be dropping a ball at the front post two or three times again, he had the time to place it where he wanted it because he had isolated the defender. Roberto was such a good counter attacking coach, it makes me wonder why he wanted Tika Taka so much when it clearly wasn’t his strength. I think we can only judge him properly when we get a proper striker in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 9 hours ago, barryj said: I think we can only judge him properly when we get a proper striker in. I'm not sure how a striker will make him go past his man more. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 13 hours ago, barryj said: I think we can only judge him properly when we get a proper striker in. He can do all these thing with or without a striker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 14 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: I'm not sure how a striker will make him go past his man more. And then do what with it? Cross into an empty box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 9 hours ago, barryj said: And then do what with it? Cross into an empty box? You can't really believe that's why he doesn't do it. There has been a striker there plenty of times when he has the ball and he elects to turn back, slow the play down. He's annoying to watch because he's just not positive enough on the ball. He picks the ball up in great positions and you just want him to run forward, he doesn't even need to stay wide to do that. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 On 13/02/2019 at 10:00, Romey 1878 said: You can't really believe that's why he doesn't do it. There has been a striker there plenty of times when he has the ball and he elects to turn back, slow the play down. He's annoying to watch because he's just not positive enough on the ball. He picks the ball up in great positions and you just want him to run forward, he doesn't even need to stay wide to do that. That’s not what I saw in the games Ive seen him play for England and RB Leipzig. I think it’s lack of confidence that’s running through the team and when your playing badly everyone fans included are in a negative frame of mind. We go back to plying it safe which leads to lack of chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisJD Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 Still can’t believe Lookman hasn’t broken into this team yet. It makes 0 sense why he hasn’t taken more mintues from Walcott, who has been out of form and arguably our lost ineffective player for all but a handful of games this season. Something behind the scenes going on I fear, can’t see us keeping him unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 Walcott is awful. It makes me question Silva when he includes him. DavisJD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 Only thing I can think of is that Silva wants experienced players to help stop the rot, rather than put the weight on a kids shoulders (would apply to Schneiderlin playing instead of Davies, Coleman coming back in for Kenny). I imagine / hope that once there's a little stability, we'll see him play the kids a bit more including Lookman. The other theory I have is that we've sorted out some kinda part-exchange for Lookman and their young striker that we're supposedly after and that we're "wrapping him up" so the injury chance is reduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 Against Liverpool Walcott was part of the strategy. He was often the furthest forward in hope of getting on to a DCL knock on. Really don't see why people want Lookman to be starting especially against a top 6 side, his off ball is no where near this level. He's good on the ball but you'd be sacrificing an awful lot of space which would leave Coleman exposed. Wiggytop, Palfy and nutmegwolf203 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, pete0 said: Against Liverpool Walcott was part of the strategy. He was often the furthest forward in hope of getting on to a DCL knock on. Really don't see why people want Lookman to be starting especially against a top 6 side, his off ball is no where near this level. He's good on the ball but you'd be sacrificing an awful lot of space which would leave Coleman exposed. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 4 hours ago, pete0 said: Against Liverpool Walcott was part of the strategy. He was often the furthest forward in hope of getting on to a DCL knock on. Really don't see why people want Lookman to be starting especially against a top 6 side, his off ball is no where near this level. He's good on the ball but you'd be sacrificing an awful lot of space which would leave Coleman exposed. When he came on against Liverpool in the reverse fixture I thought he was one of our best players, however I know you're making the point of starting the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 7 hours ago, pete0 said: Against Liverpool Walcott was part of the strategy. He was often the furthest forward in hope of getting on to a DCL knock on. Really don't see why people want Lookman to be starting especially against a top 6 side, his off ball is no where near this level. He's good on the ball but you'd be sacrificing an awful lot of space which would leave Coleman exposed. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-ademola-lookman-how-unlock-15973461?fbclid=IwAR205QKKtFpIbOUEbDvNYuY2IngvU634ETZ4Qd8WkmHahViKvtWIv-zXg6Q Long arse article just to state he's not playing because he's not good enough defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 13 hours ago, pete0 said: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-ademola-lookman-how-unlock-15973461?fbclid=IwAR205QKKtFpIbOUEbDvNYuY2IngvU634ETZ4Qd8WkmHahViKvtWIv-zXg6Q Long arse article just to state he's not playing because he's not good enough defensively. If that’s true (I’m not opening Echo links, it’s impossible to read without tearing hair out) then it’s ridiculous. His job isn’t to defend, its to create chances. The sooner people play to players strengths, the sooner we’ll realize our potential Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Matt said: If that’s true (I’m not opening Echo links, it’s impossible to read without tearing hair out) then it’s ridiculous. His job isn’t to defend, its to create chances. The sooner people play to players strengths, the sooner we’ll realize our potential If we were dropping lookman to play an Aaron Lennon type player who acted as a second full back and was extremely good defensively then I could understand it. But he has been dropped for Walcott who offers nothing attacking or defensively. Funny enough in the thread I mentioned before about Jimmy Harris (longest thread) he did say that he found it strange how Walcott has ended up. I think he was poiltely suggesting that his heart isn'tt in it and her not the player he thought he would be. Far more diplomatic than me but I could sense he was puzzled by his continued inclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUnderToff Posted March 16, 2019 Report Share Posted March 16, 2019 13 hours ago, hafnia said: But he has been dropped for Walcott who offers nothing attacking or defensively Exactly. If Walcott is the only other option, then play Lookman and let him learn and develop with first team time. Bernard and Richarlison should keep him out at the minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted March 16, 2019 Report Share Posted March 16, 2019 Lookman hasnt shown enough recently to suggest he would do any better than Walcott. Bar one ball here and there he has only shown a good enough level of form in 1 appearance. Its hard being a bit part player but he needs to do more. pete0 and StevO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUnderToff Posted March 16, 2019 Report Share Posted March 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Bailey said: Lookman hasnt shown enough recently to suggest he would do any better than Walcott. Bar one ball here and there he has only shown a good enough level of form in 1 appearance. Its hard being a bit part player but he needs to do more. I disagree, but going along with it... The difference is he's 21 and unlikely to be a finished product. He's got improvement in him, but he needs to play to get there. Walcott isn'tt taking Everton where we want to go, Lookman still might...or earn a decent transfer fee. China is probably the only hope for Walcott, without taking a big loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted March 16, 2019 Report Share Posted March 16, 2019 5 hours ago, DownUnderToff said: I disagree, but going along with it... The difference is he's 21 and unlikely to be a finished product. He's got improvement in him, but he needs to play to get there. Walcott isn'ttt taking Everton where we want to go, Lookman still might...or earn a decent transfer fee. China is probably the only hope for Walcott, without taking a big loss. Yeh they are fair points, but from Silva's point of vìew he is under pressure and whilst with Lookman there is more chance of the odd high quality performance, you are going to a certain level from Walcott in his overall play. Teams will always want Walcott. Chairman, managers and even fans will just like the sound of his name. The big issue with him is wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUnderToff Posted March 16, 2019 Report Share Posted March 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, Bailey said: The big issue with him is wages. Yep, that's the issue I see shifting him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted March 16, 2019 Report Share Posted March 16, 2019 10 hours ago, Bailey said: Lookman hasnt shown enough recently to suggest he would do any better than Walcott. Bar one ball here and there he has only shown a good enough level of form in 1 appearance. Its hard being a bit part player but he needs to do more. The highlights of lookman far outweighs walcotts. I can't actually think of many for Theo. I'd sooner develop an immature inexperienced talent when we have nothing to play for than indulge an older pro who should do more than go through the motions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted March 16, 2019 Report Share Posted March 16, 2019 1 hour ago, hafnia said: The highlights of lookman far outweighs walcotts. I can't actually think of many for Theo. I'd sooner develop an immature inexperienced talent when we have nothing to play for than indulge an older pro who should do more than go through the motions. I would rather we play Bernard and Richarlison. The difficulty we have had with Lookman is that he should be able to come on in game we have control of with half hour to play to finish the game off. Build his confidence, develop his talent and then when we have games where it will take a bit of quality to unpick a defence, he can start. The problem is we have had next to no opportunity to do that because we have been so poor too regularly. But again I repeat my second post with Downunder in that Silva probably sees Walcott's consistency as more preferable at this stage rather than what will be highs and lows with Lookman. If we were sitting in 7th chasing down the top 6 and Walcott/Richarlison/Bernard were underperforming, then I think Silva would feel more able to trust in the talent of Lookman, but he is under pressure and chucking in a kid ahead of 2 of the 3 mentioned above will rock the boat in the changing room and he probably cant afford that at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted March 16, 2019 Report Share Posted March 16, 2019 20 hours ago, Bailey said: Lookman hasnt shown enough recently to suggest he would do any better than Walcott. Bar one ball here and there he has only shown a good enough level of form in 1 appearance. Its hard being a bit part player but he needs to do more. Well of course not, he hasn’t played recently. Getting a minute here and there isn’t going to show anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted March 16, 2019 Report Share Posted March 16, 2019 Again, fans expect him to come in and win games singlehandedly. If he doesn’t, then he isn’t worth it. Expectations can ruin players, unless you have progressive management . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted March 16, 2019 Report Share Posted March 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, Shukes said: Again, fans expect him to come in and win games singlehandedly. If he doesn’t, then he isn’t worth it. Expectations can ruin players, unless you have progressive management . You need to be at a level with the basics enough not to impede the team. Atm Lookman isn'tt good enough at the basics so poses too much risk to be starting. Should've loaned him out to the championship so he could learn but he was too arrogant for the move, like most kids these days they want to run before they can walk. Palfy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad Posted March 16, 2019 Report Share Posted March 16, 2019 59 minutes ago, Shukes said: Again, fans expect him to come in and win games singlehandedly. If he doesn’t, then he isn’t worth it. Expectations can ruin players, unless you have progressive management . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Football isn’t all about what you do when you have the ball it’s as much about what you do when you don’t have the ball, Lookman doesn’t work hard enough or clever enough when he doesn’t have the ball and he’s no where near good enough to be classed as a luxury player, he has a lot to learn when he’s played he hasn’t made a difference in some ways he’s been a liability because of his dereliction of defensive duties, and he has allowed people to go without tracking them which has led to us conceding goals. Walcott is a hard working player who can see the bigger picture yes he has bad games and he gets punished for them by being dropped, the manager fought to keep Lookman so it must be hard for him to concede that he was maybe wrong about were he was in his development, because with Richarlison getting playing time on the right he has become 3rd choice and can’t make the bench and I for one can see why. I think we should have taken the 21 million we were offered because we could do more with that than him languishing in the U23s. pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Maybe we need an age cut off. If young players haven’t set the world alight by 21.... get rid! Let young up and comers know that if they are coming here they better learn fast or well fuck them off! Ye that will definitely work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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