markjazzbassist Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 they dropped off, says it all for me newts. they took off their striker and replaced him with a RB and you think they were going for it? no, i'm with mike, they got lucky and we switched off. lack of concentration and winning mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: so your solution to this evening was to make no changes and keep a gassed and coming back from injury bernard on the pitch as he was continually being bullied by newcastle's rugby players? keep kean on who hasn't finished a full 90 for us yet? honestly i give up. thinking that that would have changed the tide is just not comprehensible for me. the attitude of the players and their turning off and not playing to the whistle is what lost it. you can call it a winning mentality, you can call it mental toughness, whatever. that's the issue. a couple subs had nothing to do with it. Why make 2 defensive changes when you're in absolute full control of a game? Those changes define the mentality of the whole club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said: We will see the end when these players are gone. I was disappointed with Digne at the end. Free kick was truly awful, under no pressure to get us back in the game but he blasted it over the bar, then he was fucking around at OUR corner flag instead of just knocking it up the line. Davies was utterly brain dead with that too. We lack physicality in midfield. Nobody can receive the ball and turn with it under pressure. Only Kean was really doing it tonight and Bernard via his skill. Subs were poor and shows how bad our squad is that we bring Niasse on. But really we didn’t need to bring Niasse on, why take a good player off to put a poor or lesser player on, for me some substitutions are unnecessary and impede the team rather than improve, but still we shouldn’t have folded like we did and that’s more of a issue with the players than the manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, markjazzbassist said: they dropped off, says it all for me newts. they took off their striker and replaced him with a RB and you think they were going for it? no, i'm with mike, they got lucky and we switched off. lack of concentration and winning mentality. I'm not sure you're reading that right mate??? That s the Newcastle Captain talking about us...Where have you got that I think they were going for it from?!!! What you on about?! This is one of those hopeless convos I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, MikeO said: It's frustration Finn mate; what just happened was a once in a lifetime thing that people can't process, my lad's just said to me that he won't be able to get to sleep tonight because the absurdity of it will still be in his brain. It was nothing to do with the substitutions, nothing to do with us "shitting our pants" it was just a freak happening that happens once in a decade and this decade we're the fall guys. Shit happens. Mike you are the voice of reason but can you seriously think of any 'top' side letting this happen in the way it did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 I think Finn has it right haha. Take a break and breathe. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Gana’s shit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo 2.0 Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Baffled as to why everyone is going back and forth about the substitutions. No professional football team should be conceding two goals in the 94th minute regardless of whether Oumar Niasse, Greaham Norton or a paper bag has been brought onto the pitch. As I mentioned in my earlier post, putting it down to a "freak occurrence" is naive and quite frankly short sighted. There were clear errors from the players on the pitch that allowed the goals to happen - argue all you want about who should or shouldn't have been taken off but the point still stands for me - no professional football team should crumble like that. Unacceptable in every sense of the word. Newty82, markjazzbassist, Btay and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Newty82 said: Erm....you sure it's a once in a lifetime happening?! Are you really sure? Once in a decade?! Hmmmm. Once in a decade it happens to anyone in the top flight, once in a lifetime (if you're unlucky) it's your club that's the one shooting themselves in the foot. Apologies for not being as pissed off as I should be but I was coming off an epically good day personally so really we could've lost 5-0 tonight and I'd have gone to bed happy-ish. Newty82 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Shukes said: I think Finn has it right haha. Take a break and breathe. Bye see ya in a few weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Zoo 2.0 said: Baffled as to why everyone is going back and forth about the substitutions. No professional football team should be conceding two goals in the 94th minute regardless of whether Oumar Niasse, Greaham Norton or a paper bag has been brought onto the pitch. As I mentioned in my earlier post, putting it down to a "freak occurrence" is naive and quite frankly short sighted. There were clear errors from the players on the pitch that allowed the goals to happen - argue all you want about who should or shouldn't have been taken off but the point still stands for me - no professional football team should crumble like that. Unacceptable in every sense of the word. Does your first para (for which I "greened" you) not contradict your second one? If you're saying, "no professional football team should crumble like that" I'd agree completely, it would need a freak set of circumstances for such a ridiculous thing to happen; hence "freak occurrence" for me. Newty82 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, MikeO said: Once in a decade it happens to anyone in the top flight, once in a lifetime (if you're unlucky) it's your club that's the one shooting themselves in the foot. Apologies for not being as pissed off as I should be but I was coming off an epically good day personally so really we could've lost 5-0 tonight and I'd have gone to bed happy-ish. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34887539 Some differences but just as galling! I remember wanting Martinez's head on a spike that afternoon. I'm not quite so pissed off at this because I accept we're an average team atm and this season hasn't got anything on it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo 2.0 Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, MikeO said: Does your first para (for which I "greened" you) not contradict your second one? If you're saying, "no professional football team should crumble like that" I'd agree completely, it would need a freak set of circumstances for such a ridiculous thing to happen; hence "freak occurrence" for me. No professional football team should crumble like that, however we have a rotten, feeble mentality and poor judgement which has allowed what has happened today to happen. Whilst it isn't the same result, it's the exact same reason why we went to Anfield and lost to a couple of lads doing work experience. There is a mentality problem at the club that raises its head when we come under any form of pressure. The "freak occurrence" in this instance is that we have a goalkeeper unable to command his box (which is a serious issue) and an experienced head (Delph) who instead of retaining possession hoofs the ball 50 yards into Newcastle's defence allowing them to counter attack. If the KO had gone back to the defence, down the wing and into the corner flag then we would have won 2-1 and saved our blushes. In short, the freak set of circumstances are our own doing, which is why it's so unacceptable and why I am so utterly devistated. Newty82 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, MikeO said: Once in a decade it happens to anyone in the top flight, once in a lifetime (if you're unlucky) it's your club that's the one shooting themselves in the foot. Apologies for not being as pissed off as I should be but I was coming off an epically good day personally so really we could've lost 5-0 tonight and I'd have gone to bed happy-ish. No No, it's fair enough. Wish I wasn't as pissed off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 It’s not good but it’s also not the end of the world, all we can do is take it on the chin and learn from it. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, Zoo 2.0 said: No professional football team should crumble like that, however we have a rotten, feeble mentality and poor judgement which has allowed what has happened today to happen. Whilst it isn't the same result, it's the exact same reason why we went to Anfield and lost to a couple of lads doing work experience. There is a mentality problem at the club that raises its head when we come under any form of pressure. The "freak occurrence" in this instance is that we have a goalkeeper unable to command his box (which is a serious issue) and an experienced head (Delph) who instead of retaining possession hoofs the ball 50 yards into Newcastle's defence allowing them to counter attack. If the KO had gone back to the defence, down the wing and into the corner flag then we would have won 2-1 and saved our blushes. In short, the freak set of circumstances are our own doing, which is why it's so unacceptable and why I am so utterly devistated. I get where you're coming from here, I do. I get where MarkJazz is trying to go. I get the angle of most. We all have an opinion. But, I'm sorry, but my perception in not based just on this game. Carlo has done this in several games and we've started to buckle. It's a dangerous method for us. And I've commented on it in other game threads and in his own thread. I've never really been one to pop off about subs - you can fact check this in other threads. But, honestly, you could see this coming. That s why I'm so frustrated. One, you could see it coming. Two, it feels like Carlo is above critiscm. I don't think he is (and for balance, you can read my thoughts on him in his threads). Anyway. Fuck it. There's more positive signs then there are negatives. Much more. Just hope this defensive sub malarkey looks better when we have a squad of world class multi cup winning players. Zoo 2.0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaidharper Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Finn balor said: I’m getting off the site for a bit. Too many knobheads have turned up for me that talk absolute shite. That game has certainly done my head in. I need break as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 I don't necessarily agree with the type of subs made. I have moaned about very similar subs before (Sidibe right mid, Davies left) but to some extent I can understand the two players going off. Kean had run his arse off and Bernard looked as if his effect was wearing off. The sports scientists know when these guys are reaching the end of their teathers. The problem is that we sat back and invited pressure, however in saying that, they still weren't troubling us but we weren't having any joy in keeping the ball and relieving the pressure to see the game out rather than defending to see the game out. It should have been Gordon on as either first or second sub. It should have then probably been Tosun rather than letting him leave and bringing Niasse on. Walcott was doing well up top and he would have been able to conserve more energy there, so he might not have needed to come off so soon. It looked a matter of time until we got the 3rd at that point. When he went off we offered no threat so I don't know why we had to change the way we were playing. Having said all of that, the goals were two set pieces and Zoo is right that it was some absolute naivety and unfortunately it was mainly Holgate's naivety. His reaction for the clearance into the stands was that of a man who thought the job was done. The header comment is probably harsh but the it's the free kick that gets me the most. He is more interested in bumping his man than he is in winning the header and winning the game. It's massive complacency. He had made a few naive error early but he grew into the game but to do that at the end is just ridiculous. Davies doesn't help either because he just doesn't more or react to do the same, win the game, but the actions of Holgate are to fuck around rather than doing what he is on the pitch to do. 40 minutes ago, Newty82 said: Hmmmmmm Turns out Bruce is a genius! Newty82 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Btay said: Davies and Digne fucking around with it in our own corner started all this. More like the rest of the team being terrified of the ball forcing them into a tight spot. Absolute joke how our players go hiding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Pretty sure if Ancelotti didn't made any changes and they still equalized, the same people on here would blame him for not doing so. markjazzbassist and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 51 minutes ago, Bailey said: Turns out Bruce is a genius! He's done very well tbf. Playing better football with a worse squad than what Benetiz had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 28 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said: Digne could and should have cleared it. Davies had an opportunity to clear it but didn't. Sure they might have been played into a corner but someone has to take responsibility and nobody in this squad ever does. Davies is the one who probably steps up the most. More often than not when we're in trouble he ends up with the ball as everyone else hides. Him and Barry would have seen the game out tonight. We're desperate for a proper centre mid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Perspective everyone. Deep breaths. We were by far the better team. In the long run, this is what matters. I’d rather lose by fluke than win by fluke, because flukes happen very rarely. We are improving significantly, despite all the injuries. markjazzbassist, Matt, AlbanyNYToffee and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Just got home from the match and even though I’ve had a number of hours to calm down I’m still fuming. I had a great 90 minutes, my son was all smiles after some recent poor displays, Kean got his first goal, DCL carried on with his scoring form, Bernard was superb and Delph had one of his best games in an Everton shirt then came stoppage time. They were coasting and completely switched off. Carlo was waving his arms like mad in front of me and we were so naive it was untrue. Pickford tried a quick throw that gave possession away, Davies and Digne played themselves into all sorts of trouble. It was just pitiful. On many other days they would have got away with it but not today, a real sickener. A number of people sat round me left just before the 90 so god knows what they thought when they turned the radio on in the car. We were in total control and dominated throughout. I believe if we were only 1 up it wouldn’t of happened as they would have been more concentrated. With nearly two weeks to dwell on it I just hope this won’t have longer reaching consequences. chicagoblue and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoblue Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 What the actual fuck was that. Travelling today for work so only watched it now. Saw an email with the score and by the 90th minute I was sure the email was wrong. Might be the most Everton way to lose a game ever. Two goals by Floria Lejuene ( who has never scored) in added time. Two goals when it should have been 5-0 and out of sight. Two goals when we should have been managing the game in their corner. Awful awful awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 9 hours ago, pete0 said: Davies is the one who probably steps up the most. More often than not when we're in trouble he ends up with the ball as everyone else hides. Him and Barry would have seen the game out tonight. We're desperate for a proper centre mid. I very much doubt Barry would have made up for Davies's short falls, as much as I rated Barry those two together would have been one of the slowest central pairings in the history of mankind! 9 minutes 3 fouls and failed to clear the ball, the lad isn't good enough the sooner people stop making excuses for the lad the better Plays himself and us into trouble nearly every game Hafnia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 13 minutes ago, EFC-Paul said: I very much doubt Barry would have made up for Davies's short falls, as much as I rated Barry those two together would have been one of the slowest central pairings in the history of mankind! 9 minutes 3 fouls and failed to clear the ball, the lad isn't good enough the sooner people stop making excuses for the lad the better Plays himself and us into trouble nearly every game Last time we looked any good in midfield it was with those two. Failed to clear the ball? What was his teammates doing to help? If anything Digne should have launched it but twice(?) gave the ball back to Davies. He doesn't play himself into trouble, ore often than not if a players in a pickle they end up passing it to Davies as he always shows for the ball. Had we had three more players of his ilk in midfield then we see that game out. Hafnia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badaids Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 That was a sore one last night, the team obviously has an issue of some kind. The last 4 or 5 seasons it’s happened too many times to be a fluke or coincidence. Goals are outcomes but scoring them is a process, you can’t blame just one player for that they just failed as a team to react to the changed threat and didn’t play to kill the game. I’m sure however, all that can be fixed by Ancelotti; the other 92 minutes of the performance suggest that he is already fixing many others aspects; players finding their right place, more organisation in defence and we actually start to look like a team AND we are again a fun team to watch. It’s easy to get caught up in the disappointment but There were far too many positives last night for a couple of brain farts to detract from it. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggytop Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Rotten nights sleep after that, just couldn’t stop thinking how we messed up. At 2-1 which was disappointing after controlling the game, how the hell did we throw the win away with seconds to go. Delph should have kicked the ball upfield and out of play, there wouldn’t have been time then for them to get back in our half as they did, but no they lump it forward, we give away a stupid free kick (Delph again I think) giving them the opportunity to lump it into our box and we freeze like rabbits in headlights. So, so frustrating, They had 2 shots, both in last two minutes and both hit the net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, pete0 said: Last time we looked any good in midfield it was with those two. Failed to clear the ball? What was his teammates doing to help? If anything Digne should have launched it but twice(?) gave the ball back to Davies. He doesn't play himself into trouble, ore often than not if a players in a pickle they end up passing it to Davies as he always shows for the ball. Had we had three more players of his ilk in midfield then we see that game out. I'll reiterate once people stop making excuses for the lad the better.... Digne played us into trouble also but to say Davies doesn't play himself into trouble is bewildering, the lad undoes what good he does do with ridiculous short passes or to the opposition He does show for the ball granted but it means nothing if your not productive with it Hafnia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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