Newcastle (Away) Sunday November 1st

[milesey05]

2 shite, lack lustre performances with squad players coming in that simply aren’t good enough.

Carlo will add more quality come January and Jan can’t come soon enough.

would we have taken being 2nd after 7 games at the start of the season? Fucking right we would.

massive game against united before the int break.

win that and it’s all roses again!

[Tonsta]

Does any one know when Holgate will be fit, Kean & Mina have no idea of how to organize a defense.

Both are caught out on a regular basis with a simple ball over the top, they both can only react, not preempt,and slow, they would not see a bus coming.

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Aidan said:

Just because he's so successful doesnt mean he always makes the right decisions. My selection or system is irrelevant because I'm not a manager, I'm still allowed an opinion on i

So Your opinion that he shouldn't have played 5 midfielders was based on....... Nothing.  

Which means your point is nothing. 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Aidan said:

Wow, you are pedantic aren't you? 

I admit my initial choice of words was wrong. To say it was 'disgraceful' was an over reaction to a frustrating game. My opinion though is that carlo got the system wrong. If you think he got it right and the players were the ones responsible then more power you.

I'm not being pedantic.... There's nothing pedantic about asking why the manager alone was at fault.  Like the players weren't to blame which is what you were implying. 

[RuffRob]

I don't actually think we played badly, like we did against Southampton, but there was nothing great either. Newcastle didn't boss us or out compeate us, it was just a lack of quality to cut through a fairly defensive Newcastle side. 

It's particulay annoying, as that could have been a fairly easy 3 points if we just had one decent attacking outlet on the pitch. On any other day could have just as easily been us winning by a single goal. 

Last week we where  simply out played!! This week Newcastle just about got the rub of the green for us to come away with nothing. 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Played a wide player, maybe be really reckless and play two?

Played full backs as full backs. 

Played Doucoure as the box to box player he is. 

Its a completely fair point to say we were lacking key players, and that is always going to detract from the performance, but no-one is telling me that the Newcastle side we played today is better than ours even with those losses. They had a midfield of Hendrick, Longstaff and Almiron. 

The players have to look at themselves today but also I think Carlo will watch that game back and think that whatever he was trying didnt work.

 

We had no first choice/credible defensive fullback.

But the two fullbacks we had can bomb on so they were the width in a side that lacked our two first choice attacking wide players .....

Therefore the cover came from the midfield players.  

Made complete sense to me. 

Our options were Iwobi, Bernard, neither of whom are wide IMO. Or Gordon. 

[London Blue]

One of the reasons we lost today was that we lacked movement upfront. So many times we had the ball in midfield, passed it around nicely but had to go back as there was nobody making runs or finding space in front of them.

We lacked the runs of Richarlison and Dingne and the skill of James demanding players move to attacking situations.

We should have played two of Iwobi / Bernard / Gordon to give us that width. When we had Iwobi and Bernard on we actually looked dangerous.

Playing Siggy and Delph toom us back to the bad old days where we had no direction or ambition.

If this defeat means we see the end of Siggy and Delph in the team then this makes it easier to take.

On the plus side thought both full backs played well.

[Bailey]

54 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

We had no first choice/credible defensive fullback.

But the two fullbacks we had can bomb on so they were the width in a side that lacked our two first choice attacking wide players .....

Therefore the cover came from the midfield players.  

Made complete sense to me. 

Our options were Iwobi, Bernard, neither of whom are wide IMO. Or Gordon. 

Kenny has played many games for us and spent a season in the Bundesliga. If he can't defend by now he should have been moved on because he definitely isn't an attacking full back. 

Niels I have some sympathy with as it may have been worth a try but it didn't work and I am pretty sure that would have been obvious in training. 

Your argument fails spectacularly though because both went into the genuine full back position when they were asked to defend so Carlo clearly thought they were defensive full backs.

Furthermore playing someone wide doesn't add width if they can't get on the ball. They were easily marked by the Newcastle wing backs. At least a winger would have made the type of runs natural wide players make. Full backs don't and they didn't. 

It looked a disaster waiting to happen when the teamsheet was announced and it turned out that way. 

 

[Aidan]

2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

So Your opinion that he shouldn't have played 5 midfielders was based on....... Nothing.  

Which means your point is nothing.

Dont be so disrespectful haf. 

[Btay]

Aidan's acknowledged he went a bit over the top by saying it was disgraceful from Carlo, we're all passionate fans and get a emotional at times, especially after such results. Feel some of the responses to his opinions haven't been very respectful or fair however. 

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, Bailey said:

It looked a disaster waiting to happen when the teamsheet was announced and it turned out that way. 

Strange that when Mike posted the team sheet not one person criticised Carlo and said this was going to be a disaster, or words to that effect, yet when we lose it’s a different story

[Cornish Steve]

I really don't think Ancelotti can be blamed for today's loss. Without four key players (Richarlison, James, Coleman, and Digne), we're no more than an average team with little depth. There's a certain malaise and couldn't-care-less attitude whenever Sigurdsson and Gomes play, and Delph is little better. No team can do well under those circumstances.

We're going to lose games as long as Richarlison and James are out, so let's at least learn some lessons from them.

• Keane is improving with every game. He's a confidence player, and his confidence has returned.
• Allan is a rock in that midfield, and we're a stronger team because of him. He should be wearing the captain's armband.
• Doucoure, likewise, is a strong player, and you can tell he's beginning to get used to his new colleagues. He's another positive.
• Nkounkou is a star in the making, and I hope he gets more chances to play. As one commentator noted, the last league game he started was in the French fourth division, but you'd never know it. Well done to our scouting organization.
• Olsen had an excellent first game, and I was impressed with his obvious assurance around the ball. He demonstrated some excellent ball distribution, too. Pickford, at last, has real competition, and he must fight to keep his #1 spot. Being England's keeper does not mean you walk into an Everton team.
• Mina is doing OK, and I have no complaints there. Kenny, though, is out of his depth.
• Iwobi has potential, but his performances so far do not warrant a place in our squad. The same, IMO, can be said of Bernard.
• Calvert-Lewin needs to be fed balls from the likes of Richarlison and James, and we're wasting his talents by not doing that. Which brings me to...

Sigurdsson was a mistake from the moment we paid a fortune for him. He has his moments of set-piece brilliance, but even they are becoming few and far between. There's just no urgency there, no determination to win: "C'est la vie. We win some and we lose some." No one with that attitude should be playing for Everton. And Gomes is no better. I had high hopes for him when we signed from Spain, but he's been quite the disappointment for me. I really don't get what others see in him. His attitude is too much like Sigurdsson's, and the number of incisive balls played are becoming rare. Maybe Delph tries harder than these two, but he has no better impact. His signing was, frankly, another mistake.

With our preferred starting eleven fit and raring to go, we're a Top Four team. Right now, we're a team that deserves to finish in the third quarter: 11th to 15th. Southampton and Newcastle are two teams we have to beat to make it to the Champion's League. It gets no easier next time out.

So back to my original point. Other than through force of personality, what can Ancelotti do to instill a sense of urgency into the play of Sigurdsson and Gomes? They are overpaid and will receive the same salary whether or not they bother on the field - and Ancelotti has no real alternative to playing them. Short of playing half the U-23 team, what do we expect him to do? You say we should have played with more width, but with whom? We're stretched beyond the limit right now.

Let's hope we have as good a transfer window in January as we had this past summer. And is there any possibility at all that player wages can depend on winning? If you're losing and feel it's OK to just kick the ball around to end the game, you should not be paid.

[RuffRob]

I think Ancelloti is as frustrated as we are with the 'fringe' players at the club - most gave 5 to 6 out of 10 performances yesterday with the odd 7 out of 10. If they had all just upped it by an very achievable (and expected) 10% to say mostly 6-7 out of 10 instead - then we would would have probably won yesterdays game, that's all it would have taken. 

Even playing like we did with so many fringe players starting, there was still only a cigarette paper between us and Newcastle. So its almost doubly frustrating to come away with nothing. 

All I can put it down to is there being so many changes this weekend - they where just devoid of any sort of fluidity on either flank. 

When they are getting their chances, those players who came in should be trying to give Ancelotti a real selection headache, but they are just not doing this. You would think they would really roll their sleeve up and get on the pitch with the 'this game is mine' kind of attitude. What have they got to lose?

At the moment, there is one place up for grabs week in week out in our starting 11 - and between them at least one of Gomes, Gylfi, Iwobi or Bernard either in training or when they get on the pitch should be making it very hard for Ancelotti not to be starting them in games - but its almost the opposite with them.

[AlbanyNYToffee]

Lost the post sorry but someone mentioned we haven't won a PL game without Richarlison. Is there more context to that? Since he signed, since Carlo started here? I'm curious what the actual stat is. Thank you!

[MikeO]

17 minutes ago, AlbanyNYToffee said:

Lost the post sorry but someone mentioned we haven't won a PL game without Richarlison. Is there more context to that? Since he signed, since Carlo started here? I'm curious what the actual stat is. Thank you!

My understanding is since we signed him he's missed seven games of which we've drawn four and lost three.

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, AlbanyNYToffee said:

Lost the post sorry but someone mentioned we haven't won a PL game without Richarlison. Is there more context to that? Since he signed, since Carlo started here? I'm curious what the actual stat is. Thank you!

 

50 minutes ago, MikeO said:

My understanding is since we signed him he's missed seven games of which we've drawn four and lost three.

This. We've not won a game that he's missed since signing here.

[AlbanyNYToffee]

6 hours ago, MikeO said:

My understanding is since we signed him he's missed seven games of which we've drawn four and lost three.

 

5 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

 

This. We've not won a game that he's missed since signing here.

Thank you! Not encouraging for Saturday sadly. We're endanger of undoing all of our great work to start the season. I've said this sentence more than any other and I'll say it again: It's the hope that kills you. 

[barryj]

Who am I to question Carlo, but even more who am I to question Haf? 

Cant understand what more Gordon had to do to feature. Can’t see the point of guaranteeing Pickford a start against Man Utd before the Newcastle game kicked off and lastly can’t understand why we at least didn’t have a midfielder that has some sort of attacking output or width. We are so fortunate to have a world class manger but I think we are still entitled to ask reasonable questions. Had he changed it we may still have lost but I think you’re allowed an opinion.  

[Hafnia]

14 hours ago, barryj said:

Who am I to question Carlo, but even more who am I to question Haf? 

Cant understand what more Gordon had to do to feature. Can’t see the point of guaranteeing Pickford a start against Man Utd before the Newcastle game kicked off and lastly can’t understand why we at least didn’t have a midfielder that has some sort of attacking output or width. We are so fortunate to have a world class manger but I think we are still entitled to ask reasonable questions. Had he changed it we may still have lost but I think you’re allowed an opinion.  

I think the main issue is the manager was getting pelters as though he stopped our team from going out and winning.....

The biggest differential was that man for Man they were better than us.  When you have Gylfi and Gomes doing fuck all and we already had zero natural width because our first choice 4 players for the flanks were out then you look at why. And those 2 players didn't run, didn't pass well, in fact they didn't do anything well.

 

I'm all up for giving young players a go but Carlo for whatever reason does not think Gordon is ready.    I'm not going to question that because I've not seen enough from Gordon to suggest he is ready to step up in place of supposed international players who were used as a cover for the replacement fullbacks to provide the wide attacks 

 

[Cornish Steve]

9 hours ago, Hafnia said:

I think the main issue is the manager was getting pelters as though he stopped our team from going out and winning.....

The biggest differential was that man for Man they were better than us.  When you have Gylfi and Gomes doing fuck all and we already had zero natural width because our first choice 4 players for the flanks were out then you look at why. And those 2 players didn't run, didn't pass well, in fact they didn't do anything well.

 

I'm all up for giving young players a go but Carlo for whatever reason does not think Gordon is ready.    I'm not going to question that because I've not seen enough from Gordon to suggest he is ready to step up in place of supposed international players who were used as a cover for the replacement fullbacks to provide the wide attacks 

 

After their performances in this game, though, I'd take the gamble and replace Sigurdsson and Gomes with Gordon and Davies. He has to send a strong message in response to the half-hearted and aimless play of these two senior players. Frankly, it's worth risking us a game if it gives everyone's head a wobble for the rest of the season.

[Hafnia]

9 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

After their performances in this game, though, I'd take the gamble and replace Sigurdsson and Gomes with Gordon and Davies. He has to send a strong message in response to the half-hearted and aimless play of these two senior players. Frankly, it's worth risking us a game if it gives everyone's head a wobble for the rest of the season.

Tried that, both players been dropped.  Top and bottom is they don’t care. 

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

 Top and bottom is they don’t care. 

I don't think it's that they don't care. Well, I certainly don't think it is in Gomes' case going from hearing him speak. I can't go off anything from Sig because you don't really hear anything from him but I'd be surprised if he doesn't care.

[Hafnia]

3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I don't think it's that they don't care. Well, I certainly don't think it is in Gomes' case going from hearing him speak. I can't go off anything from Sig because you don't really hear anything from him but I'd be surprised if he doesn't care.

I suppose the level of care they have is that of "we lost today and I'm pissed off cos I like winning and it's nice.....wonder if we get back soon enough to go for a meal, I hope my pass stats were above 70% complete"

Vs

"Sorry love, it's best I don't come home tonight .... I'm completely fucked off.  I've just had a right go at a few players and Duncan had to calm me down, took a yellow card and I'm due a suspension"

[Bailey]

On 01/11/2020 at 23:50, Palfy said:

Strange that when Mike posted the team sheet not one person criticised Carlo and said this was going to be a disaster, or words to that effect, yet when we lose it’s a different story

Well next time we line up with 5 central midfielders I'll make sure I drop what I am doing just so that I can come on the boards and let you know how much of a cluster fuck it is going to be!

On 04/11/2020 at 13:14, Hafnia said:

I suppose the level of care they have is that of "we lost today and I'm pissed off cos I like winning and it's nice.....wonder if we get back soon enough to go for a meal, I hope my pass stats were above 70% complete"

Vs

"Sorry love, it's best I don't come home tonight .... I'm completely fucked off.  I've just had a right go at a few players and Duncan had to calm me down, took a yellow card and I'm due a suspension"

1. You don't have a clue about how the players think and feel.

2. There is nothing to actually say that player 2 would perform better than player 1 and from a sports psychology perspective player 1's can be better suited to becoming elite sportsman as they don't carry as much emotional baggage and they are able to focus on moving forward rather than reflecting on the past. 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Well next time we line up with 5 central midfielders I'll make sure I drop what I am doing just so that I can come on the boards and let you know how much of a cluster fuck it is going to be!

1. You don't have a clue about how the players think and feel.

2. There is nothing to actually say that player 2 would perform better than player 1 and from a sports psychology perspective player 1's can be better suited to becoming elite sportsman as they don't carry as much emotional baggage and they are able to focus on moving forward rather than reflecting on the past. 

Maybe the fact I included the word "suppose" indicates that I wasn't stating it as fact .... I suppose you intentionally missed that part. 

I'm surprised you never questioned whether or not players go for a meal or indeed argue and have to be restrained by Dunc...

we've got weak spirited players who rely on others to step up.  Couldn't give a fuck if it matters what Myers Briggs personality type they are, or where they are on Maslow's hierarchy of needs.  

the players I mention do not lack talent, they lack desire.  

There's no stat site that can spoon feed you that type of insight unfortunately bailey. it's why pundits like Keane, Neville, Carragher get paid the money they do.  They spot shit that they hated as players, funny enough both Gomes and Gylfi have both been dug out by Neville for being passengers.

[Palfy]

6 hours ago, Bailey said:

Well next time we line up with 5 central midfielders I'll make sure I drop what I am doing just so that I can come on the boards and let you know how much of a cluster fuck it is going to be!

On 04/11/2020 at 13:14, Hafnia said:

OK Sir Alf Ramsey you do that, and for your information Alf we’ve played all of our games with 5 midfielders in a 433, this time it was a 4321, never the less it was 5 midfielders as before. 
So Alf I’m very much looking forward to your analysis today on how we are going to play based on the team selection, I’m sure you’re get it spot on as you are far more knowledgeable than Ancelotti, as one of your previous comments states “I could have told anyone having seen that line up we were going to lose” or words to that affect. 

[Palfy]

On 01/11/2020 at 16:08, Bailey said:

Carlo has received a lot of plaudits for how we have played recently but that loss is on him. Poor starting 11

Great spot after the event!!!

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

OK Sir Alf Ramsey you do that, and for your information Alf we’ve played all of our games with 5 midfielders in a 433, this time it was a 4321, never the less it was 5 midfielders as before. 
So Alf I’m very much looking forward to your analysis today on how we are going to play based on the team selection, I’m sure you’re get it spot on as you are far more knowledgeable than Ancelotti, as one of your previous comments states “I could have told anyone having seen that line up we were going to lose” or words to that affect. 

Sir Alf

[Aidan]

5 hours ago, Palfy said:

Great spot after the event!!!

As ive said before people are still allowed an opinion during or after the game. A line up is just that, nobody knew which formation would have been played or what system was going to be implemented. 

The fact of the matter is nobody did say words to the effect of 'we're going to lose with that line up', but people did raise their concerns before the match. I think people have more faith in Carlo to make a system work compared to previous managers. Players did let him down, in my view he's still got to take some responsibility for that loss. 

And before people raise my previous posts soley blaming Carlo I've calmed down since then (for now until after todays game anyway!). 

[Bailey]

11 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Maybe the fact I included the word "suppose" indicates that I wasn't stating it as fact .... I suppose you intentionally missed that part. 

I'm surprised you never questioned whether or not players go for a meal or indeed argue and have to be restrained by Dunc...

we've got weak spirited players who rely on others to step up.  Couldn't give a fuck if it matters what Myers Briggs personality type they are, or where they are on Maslow's hierarchy of needs.  

the players I mention do not lack talent, they lack desire.  

There's no stat site that can spoon feed you that type of insight unfortunately bailey. it's why pundits like Keane, Neville, Carragher get paid the money they do.  They spot shit that they hated as players, funny enough both Gomes and Gylfi have both been dug out by Neville for being passengers.

 

 

Your point is that players need to care the way you think they need to care to be successful. Am I wrong? 

You just see everything black and white when in reality there is a massive grey area. Then you go on the attack when you get called out on it. 

There is simply no way that players get to this level if they lack desire. It's impossible. It just doesn't happen. Some show that in an outward manner, some don't. You have no idea what is going through their heads at any given moment. 

Keane, Neville and Carragher (two of which are failed managers btw) get paid to have an opinion. If they were as good as you seem to think they are they wouldn't be working for Sky they would be on the touchline every week managing their side.