Summer 2023 Transfer Window (The Great Everton Depression)

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

So Coady was in the team when we had a leaner defence. How many points did we earn in that time per game?

And let’s do the same exercise with Coady dropped and Keane in the team.

All in the name of fairness and to follow the Data. Because that’s what’s Important isn’t it? Points. 

Under Dyche Coady 9 out of a possible 15.

Keane 8 out of a possible 30.

Here’s the data and your right points are important, when Dyche dropped Coady for Keane we went on a run of 8 points in 10 games, but with Coady in his first 4 games as manager we had 6 points in 4 games. Once again I rest my case

[Trigger]

49 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Under Dyche Coady 9 out of a possible 15.

Keane 8 out of a possible 30.

Here’s the data and your right points are important, when Dyche dropped Coady for Keane we went on a run of 8 points in 10 games, but with Coady in his first 4 games as manager we had 6 points in 4 games. Once again I rest my case

I've not looked so I don't know, but wouldn't who the opposition were in Coady's games vs Keane's also need to be taken into account?

Personally I don't think either is good enough for us. Keane just keeps on giving the ball away or makes a mistake at key moments to give a goal or at least an opportunity away.

If Keane played every game in a season you would probably need to accept that you're going to give the opposition 3 or 4 goals away for free.

 

 

[Bailey]

11 hours ago, Palfy said:

Coady played 5 games under the Dyche the first 4 then the final game keeping 3 clean sheets and conceding 4 goals. 
Keane played 10 games keeping 2 clean sheets and conceding 20 goals. 
In the first 4 games that Dyche took control of Coady played they kept 2 clean sheets and conceded 4 goals. 
The next 4 games Keane played kept 1 clean sheet and conceded 9 goals. I rest my case that dropping Coady for Keane and trying to recreate the Bournemouth factor didn’t work. 

The final game was a back 5 so I think that is a bit different. 

Of those Coady games you mentioned, 3 were at home. Of those Keane games you mentioned, 3 were away. The 1 home game Keane played, we kept a clean sheet. 

Swing it however you like but Tarkowski and Coady played in our easier spell of games under Lampard and fucked it up. Yes we got an amazing result against Arsenal at home but then it was back to reality being beaten by two against Villa and Liverpool.

We leaked goals all season and whilst that improved under Dyche, it wasn't a problem that we ever solved regardless of who played at the back but we did take more risks going forward. You only have to look at the Buendia goal at home to Villa to see why that was considered a bit of a problem and why Coady has generally always been considered a better defender in a back 5. Like it or not Coady is far easier to expose than Keane (oohh errr). 

[Shukes]

8 hours ago, Palfy said:

Under Dyche Coady 9 out of a possible 15.

Keane 8 out of a possible 30.

Here’s the data and your right points are important, when Dyche dropped Coady for Keane we went on a run of 8 points in 10 games, but with Coady in his first 4 games as manager we had 6 points in 4 games. Once again I rest my case

Thank you. Your 100% right.

Case rested as promised

[Hafnia]

What’s all this about? Keane is shit. End of story.   He’s an accident waiting to happen. 
 

I can’t be arsed talking about Coady vs Keane cos one was a loan who may have cost us £4m if we made it perm, the other cost us £25m has generally been awful, is on £100k a week. 
 

Neither player is a patch on Mina who more or less kept us up. 
 

keane is good at heading balls and having a dig up front. That’s about it. 

[c1982]

26 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Neither player is a patch on Mina who more or less kept us up. 
 

People used Mina’s injuries as something to measure his ability - he was a liability and a waste of money of course BUT, when fit, easily our best centre back. Another popular opinion is Harry Maguire is rubbish… well he’d be our best centre back and probably a perfect replacement/upgrade on a fit Mina. Now I don’t want Maguire due to the wages and fee and the fact that I want Branthwaite to get game time this season but to say he’s rubbish just because he’s out of favour at one of the biggest clubs in the world and the tabloids/fans have him down as their scapegoat - well, it’s just lazy. He’s a victim of his over inflated price tag, high profile/expectations and previous hype - he’s still a top class centre back and leader and would be excellent under Dyche and probably Moyes, where I expect he’ll be playing next season.

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Swing it however you like but Tarkowski and Coady played in our easier spell of games under Lampard and fucked it up.

Tarkowski and Coady together for weeks under Lampard also spearheaded one of the tightest defences in the league, together they never went on a run of 8 points from 10 games and conceding 20 goals. Like I said in my original post this isn’t about Coady or Keane as individuals, it’s about the team and the team were stronger in defence with Tarkowski and Coady as pairing under Dyche than Tarkowski and Keane. You are the one that brought up that our defence was an issue and we started shipping goals, I’m giving you a valid reason for that happening under Dyche who made an impact in his first 4 games with 6 points and only 4 goals conceded, then for reasons only known to him he changed the CD pairing and we went immediately into free fall. It’s a fact of life that football managers make decisions that have a negative effect on a team the breaking up of CD pairing was definitely that, I firmly believe if he hadn’t of broken up the partnership of Tarkowski and Coady we wouldn’t have been in relegation battle to the last game of the season, I think we would have comfortably finished 12th. All the good work Dyche did in turning around the attitude of the players and bringing the best out of McNeil was undone by the defensive change he made. I thought he had learnt his lesson with 3 games remaining by dropping Keane for all 3 and bringing Mina in who was huge for us at the end of the season survival run in, and reinstating Coady for the last game against Bournemouth who made some crucial blocks in that game one of which was definitely going in, then when he didn’t take up the the option to buy Coady and Mina went on free I thought he hasn’t learnt his lesson and if we go into the season with the pairing of Tarkowski and Keane then we will struggle. 

[Romey 1878]

FFS, Coady now plays for a different club, in the fucking Championship. Move on.

As for Maguire, it's lazy to say people only don't rate him because of his time at United. I've never rated him at any club, or country, that he's played for.

He's a calamity and I laughed my head off when United paid what they did for him because he was always going to be a shit show for them.

[c1982]

32 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

As for Maguire, it's lazy to say people only don't rate him because of his time at United. I've never rated him at any club, or country, that he's played for.

He's a calamity and I laughed my head off when United paid what they did for him because he was always going to be a shit show for them.

You, maybe, and I’m very aware you can form your own opinion but you’re very much an exception… there’s far more (not aimed at anyone on here) who will just go off what the tabloids say and have that as gospel.

[Romey 1878]

14 minutes ago, c1982 said:

You, maybe, and I’m very aware you can form your own opinion but you’re very much an exception… there’s far more (not aimed at anyone on here) who will just go off what the tabloids say and have that as gospel.

It's a lovely feeling to be so seen .

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, c1982 said:

People used Mina’s injuries as something to measure his ability - he was a liability and a waste of money of course BUT, when fit, easily our best centre back. Another popular opinion is Harry Maguire is rubbish… well he’d be our best centre back and probably a perfect replacement/upgrade on a fit Mina. Now I don’t want Maguire due to the wages and fee and the fact that I want Branthwaite to get game time this season but to say he’s rubbish just because he’s out of favour at one of the biggest clubs in the world and the tabloids/fans have him down as their scapegoat - well, it’s just lazy. He’s a victim of his over inflated price tag, high profile/expectations and previous hype - he’s still a top class centre back and leader and would be excellent under Dyche and probably Moyes, where I expect he’ll be playing next season.

Maguire isn’t good enough for man United and is one of the players who struggles under the burden of playing for them. 
 

He instantly improves us as a team and is an upgrade on Keane by a mile. 

not saying he’s top quality but at the right price he would make our defence better. 

[Matt]

4 hours ago, Shukes said:

Thank you. Your 100% right.

Case rested as promised

His right what?

Actually, don't answer that...

[Romey 1878]

 

[Gwlad]

Where have I heard that before?

[dunlopp9987]

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

 

I will be shocked if we don't completely bungle this window. 

Also, it looks like all we're trying to get in at this point is a striker and maybe one or two wide players. With Tark possibly having an injury, our CB depth is looking... shocking. 

[plaidharper]

“We need a striker. We’ll get one. We’ll strengthen the team & I have no doubt in the 2nd half the season, we’ll be stronger.” - Farhad Moshiri, Jan 24, 2023

193 days and counting...

[dunlopp9987]

15 minutes ago, plaidharper said:

“We need a striker. We’ll get one. We’ll strengthen the team & I have no doubt in the 2nd half the season, we’ll be stronger.” - Farhad Moshiri, Jan 24, 2023

193 days and counting...

If we don't get one by next week, this needs to be a banner at Goodison

[Romey 1878]

13 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

I will be shocked if we don't completely bungle this window. 

Also, it looks like all we're trying to get in at this point is a striker and maybe one or two wide players. With Tark possibly having an injury, our CB depth is looking... shocking. 

Dyche could have a player literally about to put his pen to the contract to sign and he'd still say nothing was happening if the press asked him.

[Shukes]

Same old Everton though. Club and fans are the same.

You said you would buy a striker, you lied. The fact that they tried is irrelevant. If you say you are going to then the players you try for just simply aren’t allowed to say no… or it’s the clubs fault. 
 

The club do a lot wrong, and I mean a lot. But we are u realistic in our expectations as fans. 
We want two cover for every position… why shouldn’t we if the likes of Man City can?

We want top targets, again… players should be flattered that we even mention their names. And how dare they turn us down. 
 

I look at Maupay and honestly don’t blame anyone. Most on here looked at his record and thought he could do a job. It hasn’t worked. It happens at Barcelona all the time…. No reason it can’t happen here.

Why don’t we hire that scout that always buys players that fit perfectly into the team, never get injuries, and are low money and wage? Because that scout just doesn’t exist.

Were a mid table team at best. We need to realise that it’s going to take time to build us into a solid team that can fight for the top ten. We need to be patient and let the manager mould his own team. I’m sick of changing every other year. Let’s get an identity back.

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

Same old Everton though. Club and fans are the same.

You said you would buy a striker, you lied. The fact that they tried is irrelevant. If you say you are going to then the players you try for just simply aren’t allowed to say no… or it’s the clubs fault. 
 

The club do a lot wrong, and I mean a lot. But we are u realistic in our expectations as fans. 
We want two cover for every position… why shouldn’t we if the likes of Man City can?

We want top targets, again… players should be flattered that we even mention their names. And how dare they turn us down. 
 

I look at Maupay and honestly don’t blame anyone. Most on here looked at his record and thought he could do a job. It hasn’t worked. It happens at Barcelona all the time…. No reason it can’t happen here.

Why don’t we hire that scout that always buys players that fit perfectly into the team, never get injuries, and are low money and wage? Because that scout just doesn’t exist.

Were a mid table team at best. We need to realise that it’s going to take time to build us into a solid team that can fight for the top ten. We need to be patient and let the manager mould his own team. I’m sick of changing every other year. Let’s get an identity back.

[Gwlad]

A very considered post Shukes, you are right us fans have expectations that simply are not achievable at the minute. A lot of comment was made after our survival that to be a mid-table team without relegation hanging over our heads would be a step in the right direction. Dyche must be given time to build his team and I for one will be right behind that. Let's steady the ship, new investment will hopefully help that and create a more competent board. I'm not lacking ambition and will at least be hoping for two decent cup runs. 

[Trigger]

6 hours ago, Shukes said:

Same old Everton though. Club and fans are the same.

You said you would buy a striker, you lied. The fact that they tried is irrelevant. If you say you are going to then the players you try for just simply aren’t allowed to say no… or it’s the clubs fault. 
 

The club do a lot wrong, and I mean a lot. But we are u realistic in our expectations as fans. 
We want two cover for every position… why shouldn’t we if the likes of Man City can?

We want top targets, again… players should be flattered that we even mention their names. And how dare they turn us down. 
 

I look at Maupay and honestly don’t blame anyone. Most on here looked at his record and thought he could do a job. It hasn’t worked. It happens at Barcelona all the time…. No reason it can’t happen here.

Why don’t we hire that scout that always buys players that fit perfectly into the team, never get injuries, and are low money and wage? Because that scout just doesn’t exist.

Were a mid table team at best. We need to realise that it’s going to take time to build us into a solid team that can fight for the top ten. We need to be patient and let the manager mould his own team. I’m sick of changing every other year. Let’s get an identity 

I don't think our expectations are unreasonable. I think we all know we're a mid table team at this point.

However, when there are teams like Brighton and Brentford who have A LOT LESS resources and money and are making MUCH smarter transfer decisions with much better scouting than us then I think we have every right to question how we've been running things and to demand to do much better.

Given we're just out the top 6 of commercial revenue Everton should be the leader in innovation of data analysis and scouting to find the talent that the bigger clubs at this moment in time are missing because they are more likely to go for the ready proven known entities. This is ultimately the ONLY way we're going to build and to get in and become established in the very top tier again.

 

 

 

[Shukes]

46 minutes ago, Trigger said:

I don't think our expectations are unreasonable. I think we all know we're a mid table team at this point.

However, when there are teams like Brighton and Brentford who have A LOT LESS resources and money and are making MUCH smarter transfer decisions with much better scouting than us then I think we have every right to question how we've been running things and to demand to do much better.

Given we're just out the top 6 of commercial revenue Everton should be the leader in innovation of data analysis and scouting to find the talent that the bigger clubs at this moment in time are missing because they are more likely to go for the ready proven known entities. This is ultimately the ONLY way we're going to build and to get in and become established in the very top tier again.

 

 

 

I don’t disagree with your post mate.

But I do think we are unreasonable to expect players just to say yes because we are Everton.

We do have a habit of, GREAT Gnonto will be amazing for us… what a shit signing, board should be sacked for making a signing like this! Or we’ll hat guy decided to go to Atlanta rather than us… how the fuck did we manage to fuck that one up.

This is where I think we have unreasonable expectations. As long as we are going after the right targets and risks, then we need to understand that some will come good for us, but there will be a few that don’t work. There will be players that we sell and end up great for another team. 
 

This is what makes football so great…. And our team such a nightmare!

[RuffRob]

Unreasonable expectations goes hand in hand with being a fan. We will always want more.

I bet loads of Arsenal fans where criticising Arsenal and Arteta when they didn't win the league last season.

I read City fans criticising Harrland yesterday when City didn't win the charity shield. One fan saying 'we are the shittest CL champions ever'

[Wiggytop]

3 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

Unreasonable expectations goes hand in hand with being a fan. We will always want more.

Absolutely true, can we shut down all topics then

[patto]

We have to sell Branthwait he s not signing contract offered unless Everton up the offer we must take the best offer available.

[patto]

43 minutes ago, RPG said:

I would be inclined to offer Branthwaite a better package. He is better than Holgate so that's a starting point of 70k pw!

While our finances are the way they are we can’t afford to pay branthwaite that sort of money. 
we are trying to get away from paying silly money to average players. 

[London Blue]

13 minutes ago, patto said:

While our finances are the way they are we can’t afford to pay branthwaite that sort of money. 
we are trying to get away from paying silly money to average players. 

I think he has the potential to be a very good player. So maybe it's not silly money considering the market.

[patto]

8 minutes ago, London Blue said:

I think he has the potential to be a very good player. So maybe it's not silly money considering the market.

I don't think the club are sure he will be good enough so the last thing we want is another Holgate situation maybe if we offer 40k he might accept.

[Btay]

15 minutes ago, patto said:

I don't think the club are sure he will be good enough so the last thing we want is another Holgate situation maybe if we offer 40k he might accept.

I think you will find he is holding out to see how much game time he gets. Give him a run in the team for a while, assess where he is at & offer him a contract that reflects his position in the squad.