Rafael Benitez

[Hafnia]

1 minute ago, StevO said:

After the last few years I’d kill for an average finishing position of 7th. 

Nah.  It's the ultimate also-ran position.  Top 4 or nothing.  Forget anything below. 

If we finish 7th next year and do so by showing real progression and threatening top 4 then ok. . . It's not a destination position though. 

[StevO]

Just now, Hafnia said:

Nah.  It's the ultimate also-ran position.  Top 4 or nothing.  Forget anything below. 

If we finish 7th next year and do so by showing real progression and threatening top 4 then ok. . . It's not a destination position though. 

If 7th is the ultimate also ran position what is 10th? 12th? 8th? Like we’ve managed for the last four season. To me 7th is better than 8th, 10th and 12th.
 

I’d love us to finish top four, but while it’s a long long time since we managed that in a one off season, 7th place would be an upgrade on what we’ve been doing for quite some time. 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

If 7th is the ultimate also ran position what is 10th? 12th? 8th? Like we’ve managed for the last four season. To me 7th is better than 8th, 10th and 12th.
 

I’d love us to finish top four, but while it’s a long long time since we managed that in a one off season, 7th place would be an upgrade on what we’ve been doing for quite some time. 

But really have ever finished a season in 7th place and stood in the pub saying "yeah I'm pleased with that"

I haven't cos the difference between 7th and 10th is a few more quid in the pocket.  You are left seeking more. Finish top 4 and you know you are on the cusp of something. 

[markjazzbassist]

1 minute ago, Hafnia said:

But really have ever finished a season in 7th place and stood in the pub saying "yeah I'm pleased with that"

I haven't cos the difference between 7th and 10th is a few more quid in the pocket.  You are left seeking more. Finish top 4 and you know you are on the cusp of something. 

we got european football with 7th with koeman, i was pleased with that.  with the additional european places top 7 is a target now.

[Bill]

This was an article the year he left.

There's no denying the formidable job David Moyes has done with the Toffees.

The issue with a list like this is that it requires his achievements to be physical, when most of Moyes' aren't.

He has taken an aging side on the brink of relegation and transformed them to a valuable squad continually competing for Europe and even on the cusp of the Champions League.

If Everton do finish sixth this season and unluckily miss out on Europe again, Moyes will have had four campaigns where his side have missed out on European football by one place, to go with the four qualifications he's made.

That's not a bad return from 11 seasons, especially given his lack of financial support.

The fact he also operates with just the 11th best budget in the Premier League makes him responsible for continually steering the top flight's primary overachievers.

To truly establish himself and perhaps be accepted among the upper echelons of managers, clearly a trophy will have to be won at some point. However, the overall job Moyes has done at Everton is impressive enough to demand respect on its own.

And it should be respected by all, unless your name is Hafnia.

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

But really have ever finished a season in 7th place and stood in the pub saying "yeah I'm pleased with that"

I haven't cos the difference between 7th and 10th is a few more quid in the pocket.  You are left seeking more. Finish top 4 and you know you are on the cusp of something. 

Again, it’s a long time since we finished fourth. It’s a long time since we’ve finished 7th. It’s a long time since we’ve stood in a pub and been pleased with Everton. But 7th is better than what we have managed in a long time, and fourth isn’t happening mate. 

[Romey 1878]

36 minutes ago, StevO said:

Again, it’s a long time since we finished fourth. It’s a long time since we’ve finished 7th. It’s a long time since we’ve stood in a pub and been pleased with Everton. But 7th is better than what we have managed in a long time, and fourth isn’t happening mate. 

There's more chance of us finishing fourth from bottom than fourth from top.

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

This was an article the year he left.

There's no denying the formidable job David Moyes has done with the Toffees.

The issue with a list like this is that it requires his achievements to be physical, when most of Moyes' aren't.

He has taken an aging side on the brink of relegation and transformed them to a valuable squad continually competing for Europe and even on the cusp of the Champions League.

If Everton do finish sixth this season and unluckily miss out on Europe again, Moyes will have had four campaigns where his side have missed out on European football by one place, to go with the four qualifications he's made.

That's not a bad return from 11 seasons, especially given his lack of financial support.

The fact he also operates with just the 11th best budget in the Premier League makes him responsible for continually steering the top flight's primary overachievers.

To truly establish himself and perhaps be accepted among the upper echelons of managers, clearly a trophy will have to be won at some point. However, the overall job Moyes has done at Everton is impressive enough to demand respect on its own.

And it should be respected by all, unless your name is Hafnia.

11th best budget was net transfer spend  - his wage spend had us where we finished which is the one you need to use

 

It's not that I don't respect him.  I get irritated to shit that he is treated like e delivered silverware to us.

Joe Royle just seems to be erased from people's memories.

So let's just call out the similarities and differences. ....

Both took over when we were in a precarious position.  Both got us out of it.

Joe Royle won the fa cup.  Moyes bottled it.

 

Joe Royle needed backing to buy players and resigned on the principle of it.  Moyes needed backing - said he wouldn't sign a contract without backing - got 4th highest contract in world football then announced that we never had money to work with.

Royle left and kept a dignified silence.  Moyes feathered the bed for his move away whilst managing us then tried to get 2 of our best players on the cheap and insulted us when we wouldn't play ball. 

 

[Bill]

Jeez. How absolutely boring must you be in the pub, I bet people turn and walk out when you go off on one. Nobody can have a conversation with you, in your opinion you are never wrong. 

Ignore all the politics you keep going on about, just look at his record. 

Four. 6th place, Four 5th place, one 4th place, that's not two bad in 11 years mate.  That's me done.

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

Jeez. How absolutely boring must you be in the pub, I bet people turn and walk out when you go off on one. Nobody can have a conversation with you, in your opinion you are never wrong. 

Ignore all the politics you keep going on about, just look at his record. 

Four. 6th place, Four 5th place, one 4th place, that's not two bad in 11 years mate.  That's me done.

Bill.... You talk about wanting to see us win something and your preferred candidate for the Everton job is someone who spent 12 years winning nothing.

Talk about boring....

[Matt]

I can't deal with reading through all that...

I'm still very much in the "oh FFS, how are we in this mess. Well, need to get behind him. Could be worse. Meh"  

[StevO]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

I can't deal with reading through all that...

I'm still very much in the "oh FFS, how are we in this mess. Well, need to get behind him. Could be worse. Meh"  

I know what you mean Matt. It’s just like he’s any other employee at the club to me now. I don’t like him, can’t be bothered to hate him. He’s here, it is what it is. 
He won’t get a standing ovation from me when he walks out, but I won’t boo either. He’s just, well, there. 

[Sibdane]

44 minutes ago, StevO said:

I know what you mean Matt. It’s just like he’s any other employee at the club to me now. I don’t like him, can’t be bothered to hate him. He’s here, it is what it is. 
He won’t get a standing ovation from me when he walks out, but I won’t boo either. He’s just, well, there. 

What happens IF he brings success? In my line of work I come across many who I dislike personality-wise, but a lot them get the job done. 

[markjazzbassist]

Just now, Sibdane said:

What happens IF he brings success? In my line of work I come across many who I dislike personality-wise, but a lot them get the job done. 

Then he will be viewed as a success.  I don’t like him and am not a fan but if he wins a cup or the league he will win me over.  Very simple.  It’s the same bar we measure every manager with.  

[Sibdane]

Just now, markjazzbassist said:

Then he will be viewed as a success.  I don’t like him and am not a fan but if he wins a cup or the league he will win me over.  Very simple.  It’s the same bar we measure every manager with.  

I guess a  better way to phrase it is what does success look like under Rafa?

[Shukes]

I don’t actually dislike him. I don’t actually like him, not sure what I think about him.

Im gonna let him start even with me, it’s up to him whether he goes up or down.

[Wiggytop]

I’ll support him if he does well and I’ll give him stick if it’s shit he delivers, same as I do with all managers.

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Sibdane said:

I guess a  better way to phrase it is what does success look like under Rafa?

Well that is a very interesting question. It's sure as shit not CL qualification in the coming years. I think his remit is to steady the ship like Carlo was supposed to, instill a bit of work ethic and discipline in the slackers. EL qualification and a cup final in his first 2 years with this squad would be positive. 

[Romey 1878]

2 hours ago, Sibdane said:

I guess a  better way to phrase it is what does success look like under Rafa?

Don't respond, don't respond, don't respond...

[Bailey]

4 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Then he will be viewed as a success.  I don’t like him and am not a fan but if he wins a cup or the league he will win me over.  Very simple.  It’s the same bar we measure every manager with.  

Glory hunter

[Gwlad]

He was my second choice after Conte. Now after all the shit we've gone through and broken dreams I'm prepared to put my trust in him. I think step back, take a breath and judge after Christmas. I have to be confident, surely one manager will work out.

[StevO]

5 hours ago, Sibdane said:

What happens IF he brings success? In my line of work I come across many who I dislike personality-wise, but a lot them get the job done. 

I have worked alongside a guy I can’t stand on a personal level, but he does a good job and it helps us achieve joint success. It’s not ideal but it’s a situation I accept for our mutual benefit. 
I feel the same about Rafa. I want success and I want stability, so for that he has to stick around. I genuinely hope by the time he leaves I love him. Can’t see it though. Very happy to be wrong. 

[Hafnia]

Very easy for managers and players to manipulate fans.   Some fans are won over by a badge kiss or a Tommy Gravesen "look at me going crackers cos I love Everton..... Real Madrid you say?" 

Then they are so easily offended when the manager has red baubles on his tree.

Everton have been overloaded with half arsed bullshitters which is why you see stale shite on the pitch.

The noise coming from the club and I believe indirectly from media people close to it is it's been a holiday camp and Rafa is working hard...... Very hard to change the culture. 

I predicted there will be some unhappy players who have spent their time at the club trying to win favour with the manager.  These are the ones who will be casualties .......  

I've seen it in the workplace, influential employees getting in the ear of senior bosses and contributing fuck all.  The more comfortable they get the more lazy they are ........ Till a new manager comes in and wipes the board clean.  No reputations, no favouritism ........  The poor senior employees are seen whispering in corridors cos they aren't happy, they want to know where they stand and all they get is judged on work.  Next thing they apply for jobs elsewhere. 

Rafa is needed.  

[Palfy]

13 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Rafa is needed. 

I completely agree. 

[Romey 1878]

https://www.football365.com/news/ex-liverpool-man-everton-will-be-stagnant-under-difficult-benitez

[Wiggytop]

Jermaine who? Tosser and soft journalism

[Romey 1878]

4 minutes ago, Wiggytop said:

Jermaine who? Tosser and soft journalism

The same way I can't dismiss ex-players saying positive things about him just because I can't wait for him to fuck off back to where he came from, you can't just dismiss the views of someone that's worked with him because you back him as our manager.

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

The same way I can't dismiss ex-players saying positive things about him just because I can't wait for him to fuck off back to where he came from, you can't just dismiss the views of someone that's worked with him because you back him as our manager.

Back the manager Mark!! What kind of shit fan are you?!

[Romey 1878]

20 minutes ago, StevO said:

Back the manager Mark!! What kind of shit fan are you?!

The kind that despite being unhappy will still back the team and put money into the club .

[Palfy]

9 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

https://www.football365.com/news/ex-liverpool-man-everton-will-be-stagnant-under-difficult-benitez

Regardless of what ex players think good or bad is immaterial, he’s now our manager and currently the best chance we have of putting the last 5 years behind us. So fuck the red shite players and supporters, who here seriously gives a shite what they think.