Frank Lampard

[London Blue]

I don't want Frank to go, I want him to succeed, especially after last season but the results are horrific. 

I'm not sure who we get, Martinez maybe, knows the club, unfinished business?

Frank needs a win next match, and some new players.

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

2 minutes ago, London Blue said:

I don't want Frank to go, I want him to succeed, especially after last season but the results are horrific. 

I'm not sure who we get, Martinez maybe, knows the club, unfinished business?

Frank needs a win next match, and some new players.

 

I am absolutely terrified to say that I fully expect Martinez to be our next manager 

[Btay]

I have said before and I’ll say again, this squad is as far from a Roberto Martinez squad as one can get. I really don’t see how he gets this lot playing his style of football.

[Bailey]

Just now, Btay said:

I have said before and I’ll say again, this squad is as far from a Roberto Martinez squad as one can get. I really don’t see how he gets this lot playing his style of football.

It would be a complete and utter car crash!

[Romey 1878]

Sack the board. Sack the manager. Sack all of the useless fucking cunts.

[Matt]

7 minutes ago, Bailey said:

It would be a complete and utter car crash!

As opposed to?

I was really hoping he'd be our Arteta, as in a rough patch but visible progress. But the big difference is he hasn't been assistant to learn from a great manager. I still think he gets the window but if there's no quality striker brought in, we're in real trouble regardless of manager. 

[Bailey]

4 minutes ago, Matt said:

As opposed to?

I was really hoping he'd be our Arteta, as in a rough patch but visible progress. But the big difference is he hasn't been assistant to learn from a great manager. I still think he gets the window but if there's no quality striker brought in, we're in real trouble regardless of manager. 

I think we need to sit deep and set up for the counter as that is what we have the squad to do. Putting someone in like Martinez will just expose all the issues we have under Lampard. 

I really don't see us getting better strikers than Dom and Maupay in this window. 

[badaids]

He's toast.

Whoever comes in next (and I think it will be probably Moyes or Martinez), we are toast.

[MC11]

I expect him to get United and Southampton. But he won’t get a result at either. Players look withdrawn again. 
 

Really he should be gone tonight. Awful awful manager. Nice fella though. 

[Palfy]

3 minutes ago, badaids said:

He's toast.

Whoever comes in next (and I think it will be probably Moyes or Martinez), we are toast.

I think it could be Dyche. 

[BedfordBlue]

6 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I think it could be Dyche. 

I would go with Dyche over Martinez used to working with no money and fighting relegation battles 

[StevO]

Our problems are much bigger than the manager. It’s years of decline and we are coming to breaking point. As with the people who run this football clubs usual tactics, we will sack Frank soon in the hope that his replacement takes the heat of them. 
 

Unless they can somehow pull a rabbit out of the hat (like Poch or Tuchel, which they won’t) then I don’t want the heat off them. 
 

I’ll add that Bill left at 2-0, sit there and watch your mess of a football club suffer. Don’t run away like a coward. 

[Romey 1878]

3 minutes ago, StevO said:

I’ll add that Bill left at 2-0, sit there and watch your mess of a football club suffer. Don’t run away like a coward. 

That phoney knew what was coming and couldn't handle it. If he didn't hear it then it didn't happen as far as he's concerned.

They'll all bury their heads in the sand after tonight rather than admit they're part of the problem. If big blue Bill really was the blue he claims to be he'd resign. Denise would fuck off tonight too. The glorified fan on the board Sharp would step down.

Biggest of all though, if Moshiri had anything about him they wouldn't need to resign because he'd sack them.

Manager after manager, three DoF's but the board just carry on their merry way and take no responsibility whatsoever. Nah, fuck that.

[Billwelshblue]

Has to go now. But the club is a mess and the rot comes from the top. We sack manager after manager but continue to decline because the board and structure is rotten. Squad isn't good enough they've stripped out the goals, the financials are a mess the commercial performance is pitiful the only thing we have is a new stadium it will look great in the Championship. 

[Billwelshblue]

3 hours ago, Bailey said:

I think we need to sit deep and set up for the counter as that is what we have the squad to do. Putting someone in like Martinez will just expose all the issues we have under Lampard. 

I really don't see us getting better strikers than Dom and Maupay in this window. 

Agree that was obvious after city we aren't good enough to pass it around we are wide open. Why he changed it again is beyond me

[Btay]

I really like Frank as a person, the way he conducts himself & the fact he gets us. I want so bad for this to work out for him for all those reasons.

The issue is the moment things get bad and they are very, very bad right now - his lack of experience gets compounded and it’s brought to the fore front.

The even bigger issue for me is the players we brought in this year were the exact players to stop that type of collapse happening - I don’t doubt that everyone on here would agree with that.

He gets the next 2 games for me but he is on a knife edge for a while regardless if we get something from those games.

[AnotherYank]

When Frank took over, we had 19 points from 20 matches and were in 16th, 4 points above Newcastle in 18th.  We finished in 16th, 4 points above Burnley in 18th.  We now have 15 points from 18 matches and are in 16th, 1 point above Forest in 18th.  We were in trouble when he took over, needed a near-miracle to finish the season in the same place we were when he started, and we are in slightly worse position now.  

I know there are other problems with the club that are going to make it a difficult job, but we have not improved our results at all with Frank.  

[StevO]

1 hour ago, AnotherYank said:

When Frank took over, we had 19 points from 20 matches and were in 16th, 4 points above Newcastle in 18th.  We finished in 16th, 4 points above Burnley in 18th.  We now have 15 points from 18 matches and are in 16th, 1 point above Forest in 18th.  We were in trouble when he took over, needed a near-miracle to finish the season in the same place we were when he started, and we are in slightly worse position now.  

I know there are other problems with the club that are going to make it a difficult job, but we have not improved our results at all with Frank.  

Richarlison and Pickford were the difference last season. We’ve lost a big part of that duo with no replacement. 

[FairWooney]

I'm quite conflicted on the manager front.

I really feel we need to stop changing manager every 2 years or less as it's really not doing us any favours.  It disrupts the team, sees lots of coaching staff changes and loses us money in pay outs. 

The biggest issue for me is Moshiri but sadly he won't be selling up any time soon and I'm not sure he's going to change how he works.

--

On Lampard, whilst I don't think our squad is great, it doesn't have a lot of depth and there are players in certain positions that just aren't good enough I do think that tactically Lampard struggles to get things right more often than not.  I also think with the quality of the coaching staff he's brought in that we should be getting more out of these players, if nothing else but getting certain basics right.

I'd like to see him kept on but in reality if we don't beat Southampton I think his time will be up.

Man Utd doesn't really matter, I'd make plenty of changes, give Price and Simms a start, give Vinagre a game.  The fact that it's away from home takes a little pressure off of it as it escapes the major anger of the fans.

The atmosphere at the Southampton game will no doubt be ugly and it's up to Lampard and the just as importantly the players to get the fans on their side and give them something to cheer for.  We've seen it with every manager in recent years that once they lose the fans their days are numbered, it can drag on for a few games or they can get the boot quickly but it very rarely turns around.  I'd say Southampton will be Frank's last chance (if he gets it) to get enough backing to keep going.

[Matt]

I wonder, and I know this is fever dream levels here, if Tuchel would come in and we keep Lampard as assistant with the background staff. I still don't believe the squad is that bad, but Lampard just isn't mature enough as a manager to get the best out of them.

[FairWooney]

Why would he want to go to a team where he'll have nothing to spend, have a poor squad, are low in the table and have become accustomed to ditching a new manager every 18 months (I know this final one is also the same as Chelsea!).

 

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

I wonder, and I know this is fever dream levels here, if Tuchel would come in and we keep Lampard as assistant with the background staff. I still don't believe the squad is that bad, but Lampard just isn't mature enough as a manager to get the best out of them.

Wonder no more - he won't.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12779624/frank-lampard-meets-with-everton-board-after-poor-run

[Newty82]

Lampard, as a bloke, is dead right for this club. Really, really wanted him to succeed. He got it, you know what I mean? He got IT.

 

 

 

But the results, and maybe more importantly, the performances, have turned diabolical. Once or twice you say 'ah, as expected....' But repeatedly becomes too much.

 

 

 

At the end of the day, at absolute best, midtable was expected. To finish in that area, you're naturally going to have shit runs of results.

 

 

 

In the summer, with the defensive signings and midfielders, you could see what the priority was. And that worked for a short period. But it must be difficult for the players at the back to be going full throttle to no avail because we have fuck all up top to relieve the pressure on them. Eventually, that will, and has, drained confidence.

 

 

 

We can, and probs will panic and sack yet another manager, and just repeat the same pattern, the same questions, the same comments of the past 7 years.

 

 

 

Who comes in next? Fuck knows. We've turned our noses up at some names, got rid of others too soon.

 

 

 

Whatever happens, we need to accept as fans that we are going to have to play careful, defensive, cautious football. Forget all this School of Science stuff.

We've got the sort of players I think Sean Dyche would find easy to work with. Just manage your expectations.

It's going to be shit for years to come.

 

[Billwelshblue]

1 hour ago, Newty82 said:

Lampard, as a bloke, is dead right for this club. Really, really wanted him to succeed. He got it, you know what I mean? He got IT.

 

 

 

But the results, and maybe more importantly, the performances, have turned diabolical. Once or twice you say 'ah, as expected....' But repeatedly becomes too much.

 

 

 

At the end of the day, at absolute best, midtable was expected. To finish in that area, you're naturally going to have shit runs of results.

 

 

 

In the summer, with the defensive signings and midfielders, you could see what the priority was. And that worked for a short period. But it must be difficult for the players at the back to be going full throttle to no avail because we have fuck all up top to relieve the pressure on them. Eventually, that will, and has, drained confidence.

 

 

 

We can, and probs will panic and sack yet another manager, and just repeat the same pattern, the same questions, the same comments of the past 7 years.

 

 

 

Who comes in next? Fuck knows. We've turned our noses up at some names, got rid of others too soon.

 

 

 

Whatever happens, we need to accept as fans that we are going to have to play careful, defensive, cautious football. Forget all this School of Science stuff.

We've got the sort of players I think Sean Dyche would find easy to work with. Just manage your expectations.

It's going to be shit for years to come.

 

Agree why he changed it from city is beyond me for the avoidance of doubt WE ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY OPEN! Whilst our only route out is being compact and countering teams we can't play passing football. Yes, Lamps has been dealt a bad hand, hamstrung by bad recruitment and a board that can't spend because of sheer waste for years. I like him as a fella and he galvanized us last season but the issues at this club are deep and we need a good coach with the tactical experience our team doesn't look like it's been properly coached. The sad thing for me is I feel like it's not going to change much sacking him the culture is rotten the club is rotten, it doesn't change because it comes from mismanagement at the top.

[Formby]

1 hour ago, Newty82 said:

In the summer, with the defensive signings and midfielders, you could see what the priority was. And that worked for a short period. But it must be difficult for the players at the back to be going full throttle to no avail because we have fuck all up top to relieve the pressure on them. Eventually, that will, and has, drained confidence.

This, in particular.

[Trigger]

I'd love Frank to stay, but I just can't see what progress is being made with the training and "hard work" that is always being referred to?

Taking player individual ability to one side that can be fixed by transfers. Before the break we had many tactical and organisational issues. 3 main attacking ones in my opinion. (Defensively we looked relatively solid before the World Cup - Bournemouth aside).

1. Generally Moving the ball too slowly moving up the pitch

2. Midfielders not finding space or making angles to receive the ball when transitioning from defence to attack from the back.

3. When in the final attacking third of the pitch BEFORE receiving the ball, knowing where the next pass/cross was going to. (so that it was quick, the target player was in sync making a run if needed in order to break down well organised defenses)

While the World Cup was on there were 3 to 4 weeks to practice/train/coach the absolute shit out of this, yet there is no evidence whatsoever that anything like this has been done. There seems to be no apparent change at all!

I don't believe the players we have are all significantly worse than most other lower half of the league teams. Even if you don't have amazingly off the cuff creative players in the final 3rd, you can still run and practice the crap out of range of American Football style "set plays" for breaking down defenses in the final 3rd and run through them so many times until your doing them in your sleep. 

Whatever Frank and his team are doing off the pitch with the players, I'm not seeing any kind of change in what the players are doing on it at all. This is what concerns me the most in sticking with him. If he is to stay we need to see evidence of the changes the coaching team are looking to deliver.

[RuffRob]

This team is capable of playing counter attacking, snatch and grab football, Frank Lamaprd is capable of putting a team on the pitch that can effectively play that type of football. So to this effect I don't see the point in hiring a Alladayce/Dyche type to do this and totally start from scratch with a new backroom staff again.

I also don't see the point in bringing a coach that wants to play with the ball, As the squad is not good enough. As managers (with better player at their disposal) have found out. 

[FairWooney]

The talk of Martinez is suicidal to me.  He always refused to drop the passing game at all costs and in the position we are in we can't afford to start trying to get that right.

His style of play also requires the kind of quality creative players that we don't have.  He's enjoyed a few years of KDB in his side, he'd be going back to McNeil, Gordon, Gray and Iwobi!  (highest XGA for our players is 0.15 per game, KDB has 0.5 in premier league!).

--

Lampard has shown both last season and in games like the Man City one that he can get the team up for the fight and well organised enough to keep a side out.

If you are going to play counter attack you are a lot less reliant on real quality creative players, you need players well drilled in making a quick break and making sure they look up for quick passes to pick out other runners.  Richarlison was well suited to the counter as he had pace, could run at people and well having to play hold up was good at winning a foul.

DCL isn't quite so good but is decent on hold up.

Iwobi, Gordon and Gray should all be very capable in this and both did ok last season when needing to play that way.

 

As you've said @RuffRob this is a way we can play if we have to and if we don't have the resources to invest in improvements to the squad it is probably the best way forwards at the moment.  Obviously, in some games you can be more expansive than others, pressing further up the field but as we've consistently found that we can't open teams up when they have players behind the ball we need to look at going with this approach for the most part

[Hafnia]

Lampards in game management isn’t near good enough. Got to go sadly.