Paddock Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 Hyperbolic, for sure, (Koeman is neither delusional nor offensive), but the point I'm making is that Koeman is conducting business through one-liners in the public domain. The point you're trying to make is you've wrote Koeman off since he took over from your golden boy Martinez and you jump on the slightest thing to try and discredit him. It's getting embarrassing now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 The point you're trying to make is you've wrote Koeman off since he took over from your golden boy Martinez and you jump on the slightest thing to try and discredit him. It's getting embarrassing now. Not at all. As I mentioned elsewhere, he was a brilliant footballer in his time. Once established (he takes several months to "warm up"), he has a good track record with his clubs. Nonetheless, no manager is immune from weaknesses, and I'm simply pointing out his main weakness. He'd do himself a favour if he kept internal discussions and negotiations out of the public domain - just like Martinez would have served himself better if he hadn't made optimistic statements totally out of whack with reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 I don't agree with Koeman coming out with this stuff in the media and I also think he'd be an extremely tough bloke to get on with. He's not here to make friends that's for sure. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 (edited) Ross didn't improve at all under Martinez, when he needed coaching. He has improved massively in just the last six months under Koeman. The switch to the right hand side has seen some of the best football I've seen from him. I'd like to see what Koeman can get from him over a long period. Koemans management style is being questioned? Different people respond to different styles, what works for one person will turn another person away. His blunt and honest style will get the best out of some players and not others, that's just life. That's not him having no skills. No manager will suit every player. Ask Joe Hart and Zlatan about Pep, ask Luke Shaw about Jose, styles don't suit everyone. I suit my current managers style, not my previous. Two of my current team are perfectly suited to my style, one is dead opposite but we have to get on anyway. Edited May 11, 2017 by StevO Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneyneil Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 In my opinion, he will be sold now. Koeman has made his mind up and has targets in place. We all have wanted him to do well as he is a blue, local lad and come through the ranks. However, the reality is, that if we had bought him for 30 million from a Spanish team and he was Spanish, we would be slagging the lad off and telling Koeman to get rid. His performances don't justify the amount of debates he starts and I think for everyone concerned, it would be better if he was moved on. There are a lot better players out there in his position. We still don't really know his position. What top drawer player out there has so many debates about what his best position is??? How is playing deep, number 10, out on the right, got anything to do with dwelling on the ball for too long, giving the ball away when good opportunities present themselves (consistently)??? Stats may tell us he creates chances, etc but does this include corners? free kicks? crosses to Rom (who probably boosts his assists up by the way due to his above average finishing skills)?. Stats also tell us that Idrissa Gueye is better than Kante but that certainly isn't true. For me, Barkley's best attributes are his ability to drive past people due to his strength and speed, and probably his ability to dig with two feet, which we never see!!! He does neither of these things. I'd have Sigurdsson all day before Barkley. Even if he was having a bad game, he always has a goal or quality set piece delivery in him. Barkley will provide a few good moments in a 6-3 win against Bournemouth and the local press give him Man of the Match. When he first came on the scene, he provided decisive moments with a free kick (I think against Swansea?), a goal against Newcastle, a goal against Man City, all at crucial times in a game which is what good players are judged on. In reality, he hasn't contributed to any points with key assists or goals (that I can remember) in the past two seasons and that is diabolical considering his position in the team. The line of "what if he goes elsewhere and becomes the player we thought he was going to be" doesn't wash with me. That's a huge if. He wouldn't get in any of the teams above us and that's what we should be judging players on now in order to make the next step. Lets get the money and trust Koeman and Walsh with it. It will also finish the endless discussions about the conundrum of Ross Barkley, which I myself contribute to, but am now sick of................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 It's a pity it really is... such a gifted footballer. It seems he infuriates managers. For me I think he will go on to be a very good player. If he ends up at a club with an experienced mentor - forward men who are creative with their runs... He will really blossom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 It's a pity it really is... such a gifted footballer. It seems he infuriates managers. For me I think he will go on to be a very good player. If he ends up at a club with an experienced mentor - forward men who are creative with their runs... He will really blossom. Translation - it's Lukakus fault Barkleys been average all season and if it wasn't for him he would be better" Come on Pete, you're better than that! nutmegwolf203, markjazzbassist and Lowensda 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Come on Pete, you're better than that! No he's definitely consistently not markjazzbassist and Lowensda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Translation - it's Lukakus fault Barkleys been average all season and if it wasn't for him he would be better" Come on Pete, you're better than that! You have to give him credit, doggedly stubborn. I've said this several times before, Haf would make an incredible politician. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 He will sign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Translation - it's Lukakus fault Barkleys been average all season and if it wasn't for him he would be better" Come on Pete, you're better than that! I do think lukakus movement impacts Barkleys creativity... absolutely 100%. Far too often he runs away from the lad and creates a gap for a defence to block the passroute off. When he actually needs to drop and offer a give and go instead. He does need a mentor more so though... He needs an old creative maestro to tutor him. His decision making would improve as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 You have to give him credit, doggedly stubborn. I've said this several times before, Haf would make an incredible politician. I'd probably be far too much to the left though...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Telegraph Sport states that Koeman has given Barkley 'till the end of next week to sign the contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Telegraph Sport states that Koeman has given Barkley 'till the end of next week to sign the contract. yeah its posted above, he said it in the watford presser. they gave him the contract he's had all season, he said sign or go by end of season, that's next week. he said he'll be sold if he doesn't. he likes people who want to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Telegraph Sport states that Koeman has given Barkley 'till the end of next week to sign the contract. He's consistent I'll give him that, he said the same six months ago. Papers are just too dumb to remember. Don't k ow what they get paid for. Breaking news just in..... Lukaku wants to play for a CL club, and Colemans leg still got broke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 I do think lukakus movement impacts Barkleys creativity... absolutely 100%. Far too often he runs away from the lad and creates a gap for a defence to block the passroute off. When he actually needs to drop and offer a give and go instead. He does need a mentor more so though... He needs an old creative maestro to tutor him. His decision making would improve as a result. Barkley holds on to the ball far too long he's like a headless chicken , Lukaku runs and runs and Barkley never releases the ball to him. I see it week in week out Haf he's notorious for it yet you blame Lukaku for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Barkley holds on to the ball far too long he's like a headless chicken , Lukaku runs and runs and Barkley never releases the ball to him. I see it week in week out Haf he's notorious for it yet you blame Lukaku for it. You're not the only pone who notices. Pundits and experts often say how many touches/dribbles Barkley does unnecessarily. Usually resulting in a loss of possession. Which is why Tom is a breath of fresh air with his give and go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 You're not the only pone who notices. Pundits and experts often say how many touches/dribbles Barkley does unnecessarily. Usually resulting in a loss of possession. Which is why Tom is a breath of fresh air with his give and go Exactly. It's no coincidence that Lukaku is often caught offside either because he is constantly making runs and Barkley never releases it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Not for me... Michael ball absolutely nailed it the other week in his article. He essentially said lukaku makes it difficult for the midfielders to pass it to him. Yes... Barkley can and does hold on to it too long - it's a chicken and egg scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 I'm with Paddock and Lowensda. Barkley takes too long to make the pass. The ball still finds the man, but the chance is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) I'm with Paddock and Lowensda. Barkley takes too long to make the pass. The ball still finds the man, but the chance is gone.I'm with Michael ball and the world class Belgian attacking midfielders who also seem to struggle in getting the ball to him. Interesting article which resonates with what we see against the better sides www.goal.com/euro2016/en/article/who-would-pay-80m-for-lukaku-belgium-striker-struggling-to-justify-his-value/zvujv18qpaeh1gnadb56cem2u Edited May 12, 2017 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 It's both of them for me...Barkley holds on too long and Lukaku's runs are shit straight lines anyway. Sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 Barkley holds on to the ball far too long he's like a headless chicken , Lukaku runs and runs and Barkley never releases the ball to him. This is what I see every game... after a few 'unfed' runs Lukaku can get frustrated and that's where he will miss an opportunity to run through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 This is what I see every game... after a few 'unfed' runs Lukaku can get frustrated and that's where he will miss an opportunity to run through. Most see it mate but as you know- world hunger- cancer and North Korea are all alukakus fault. could have been the last time we saw him play at Goodison in an Everton shirt yesterday. Once he's gone a lot of points and theories will be disproved or vice versa so we'll see. Back to Barkley. Does anyone else think he's gone ater that exit last night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 Most see it mate but as you know- world hunger- cancer and North Korea are all alukakus fault. could have been the last time we saw him play at Goodison in an Everton shirt yesterday. Once he's gone a lot of points and theories will be disproved or vice versa so we'll see. Back to Barkley. Does anyone else think he's gone ater that exit last night? it's just strange pad. why wait so long to sign a contract? i think he's off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 I thought it was a farewell myself but I may be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 (edited) This is what I see every game... after a few 'unfed' runs Lukaku can get frustrated and that's where he will miss an opportunity to run through.He only sees what he has ahead of him... it's very easy for him to think "ffs- I was clean through there" If he had any real footballing intelligence he would be thinking about the run and the path of the pass.... He doesn't. Any striker in the world can look in front and pick a gap across the back line... what the smart ones do is engineer the run to expose themselves to the pass which is away from interception. Look at the reversal. Watch how gana and schneiderlin position themselves.... they see a midfield opponent with the ball - first thing the look at is where the striker is - that tells them the main offensive risk is the line from the man with the ball to the striker.... so they place themselves slap bang in that line. The man with the ball has to make a choice.... risk an intercepted pass... run the ball or pass it simple. Ever see Rom run one way - check then go the other? Ever see him feign a run to throw the opposition off and then go the other? Suarez was the absolute master at this in his time at Liverpool. I don't think I ever seen him run in a straight line... He made a finished Gerrard look like platini. Barkley is not without criticism... Far from it. He is frustrating but I do feel that lukakus movement is piss poor and he just does not offer the midfielders the passes they want to make. Look at Valencia last night? Movement up front gives the midfield options... it gets the team fluid. Edited May 13, 2017 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 I hope that he does go now, heard lots of people saying i love him he's one of us, well to me he isn't. It's just like a lot of other players..... Money, these players are already millionaires but they want much more the greedy bastards, and if he was "one of us" he'd have jumped at the chance to sign without even looking at the wages. You or I would play for the thrill of wearing the blue shirt, and running out on the pitch to 40.000 adoring fans roaring for you, and wouldn't worry about the money. So I wouldn't miss him if he went, because after all he's not "one of us". markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 I hope that he does go now, heard lots of people saying i love him he's one of us, well to me he isn't. It's just like a lot of other players..... Money, these players are already millionaires but they want much more the greedy bastards, and if he was "one of us" he'd have jumped at the chance to sign without even looking at the wages. You or I would play for the thrill of wearing the blue shirt, and running out on the pitch to 40.000 adoring fans roaring for you, and wouldn't worry about the money. So I wouldn't miss him if he went, because after all he's not "one of us". I heard last night the contract on the table is 140 grand. I don't think it's the money Pete I think he's sick of the pressure here and the dogs abuse he gets off some fans if he doesn't score a worldie everytime he gets the ball then there was the incident where he got banged in town etc etc. I think he might just want a fresh start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 I heard last night the contract on the table is 140 grand. I don't think it's the money Pete I think he's sick of the pressure here and the dogs abuse he gets off some fans if he doesn't score a worldie everytime he gets the ball then there was the incident where he got banged in town etc etc. I think he might just want a fresh start. Wouldn't surprise me. But I think there is something with koeman too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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