Palfy Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 9 hours ago, AlbanyNYToffee said: As impressed as I am with the quality of the signings, I'm equally if not more impressed by the contracts. It seems like for far far too long it was 'you're a new signing here's a 5 yr deal'. Never understood that the club takes on all of the risk. Allan is 29 and his three year deal takes him to 32. James is 29 and his 2 year deal with an option takes him to 31/32. Doucoure is 27 and his 3 year deal with an option takes him to 30/31. If it's working out great sign him up to an extension and if it's not you don't get stuck with Martina/Niasse/Gylfi/Bolasie/Besic/Tosun. You would have to be a complete dick to give a five or four year deal to players of 29 years of age, that’s the only reason they are shorter contracts, it’s not because he doesn’t give out long term contracts take a look at Richarlison, Iwobi, Gomes, Digne, Mina ect, personally I think you’re reading to much into what any sensible person would do with players of that age, and suggesting he’s had some sort of divine vision for doing so, when in reality he’s done what would have been expected from anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Palfy said: You would have to be a complete dick to give a five or four year deal to players of 29 years of age, that’s the only reason they are shorter contracts, it’s not because he doesn’t give out long term contracts take a look at Richarlison, Iwobi, Gomes, Digne, Mina ect, personally I think you’re reading to much into what any sensible person would do with players of that age, and suggesting he’s had some sort of divine vision for doing so, when in reality he’s done what would have been expected from anyone. I think you’re right and people are on a high at the moment. Don't forget the recent 5 year deal given to Keane that had some surprised at the length of contract after a good short period following lockdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 1 hour ago, barryj said: I think you’re right and people are on a high at the moment. Don't forget the recent 5 year deal given to Keane that had some surprised at the length of contract after a good short period following lockdown. Technically, it was a three year extension. So it wasn't surprising in the slightest. markjazzbassist and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbanyNYToffee Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 8 hours ago, Palfy said: You would have to be a complete dick to give a five or four year deal to players of 29 years of age, that’s the only reason they are shorter contracts, it’s not because he doesn’t give out long term contracts take a look at Richarlison, Iwobi, Gomes, Digne, Mina ect, personally I think you’re reading to much into what any sensible person would do with players of that age, and suggesting he’s had some sort of divine vision for doing so, when in reality he’s done what would have been expected from anyone. In many regards I agree. Plenty of dicks out there doing exactly that. Where I think this situation is different is in the profile of the three signings. Add in Richarlison and Digne and you could argue these three signings are immediately 3 of our top 5 players in the squad. To sign marquee players on team-friendly contracts at a club like ours is very difficult to do. The credit is more down to the profile of the player rather than the age I guess, should have been more clear. nutmegwolf203, Matt and Bailey 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 26 minutes ago, AlbanyNYToffee said: In many regards I agree. Plenty of dicks out there doing exactly that. Where I think this situation is different is in the profile of the three signings. Add in Richarlison and Digne and you could argue these three signings are immediately 3 of our top 5 players in the squad. To sign marquee players on team-friendly contracts at a club like ours is very difficult to do. The credit is more down to the profile of the player rather than the age I guess, should have been more clear. Yes but only in hindsight are they 3 of our top signings, they could have quite easily have been flops, the facts are he is no genius he does give out 4 and 5 year contracts, but like anyone with an ounce of sense you don’t do that to players of that are 29 years old. I’m telling you now if he would have been here when Gylfi Schneiderlin Bolasie Sandro they would have all ended up with the same length of contract, he’s not the guy you make out that only dish’s out 2 and 3 year contracts, that was done purely because of their age not their ability or their profile. barryj and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbanyNYToffee Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Palfy said: Yes but only in hindsight are they 3 of our top signings, they could have quite easily have been flops, the facts are he is no genius he does give out 4 and 5 year contracts, but like anyone with an ounce of sense you don’t do that to players of that are 29 years old. I’m telling you now if he would have been here when Gylfi Schneiderlin Bolasie Sandro they would have all ended up with the same length of contract, he’s not the guy you make out that only dish’s out 2 and 3 year contracts, that was done purely because of their age not their ability or their profile. Again I think we agree on this we're just not understanding each other's points I guess. I'm not trying to make him out to be a genius. I just want to give him credit for getting these contracts right. I completely understand he gave long contracts to younger players as you'd expect. My point is that in order to attract names like Allan, James and Doucoure you have three things to sell: winning/Europe, contract, and 'project'. We obviously don't have winning/Europe. That leaves contract and project. From Brands' perspective it would have been much easier and quicker to sweeten the pot for these aging players by agreeing to 5 year deals when they're past their prime. That likely would have been enough to get them across the line. Instead he leaned hard on Carlo and sold the project. For example we get Doucoure at 27 on a 3+option contract. He's (seemingly) a far superior talent than Schneiderlin, Gylfi and Bolasie yet all 3 of them signed 5yr contracts at the same age. 5 year contracts put all the risk on the club. 2-3 year contracts distributes much of the risk back to the player. It's definitely a sports culture difference between US and England. We're so quick to sign a player to an extension that still has 2-3 years left on their current contract. I've never been a fan of that. If you want to reward a player simply increase his wage and release clause. Nothing says you have to make the contract longer until there is 1 year left on it. Romey 1878, Bailey and Sibdane 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 1 hour ago, AlbanyNYToffee said: Again I think we agree on this we're just not understanding each other's points I guess. I'm not trying to make him out to be a genius. I just want to give him credit for getting these contracts right. I completely understand he gave long contracts to younger players as you'd expect. My point is that in order to attract names like Allan, James and Doucoure you have three things to sell: winning/Europe, contract, and 'project'. We obviously don't have winning/Europe. That leaves contract and project. From Brands' perspective it would have been much easier and quicker to sweeten the pot for these aging players by agreeing to 5 year deals when they're past their prime. That likely would have been enough to get them across the line. Instead he leaned hard on Carlo and sold the project. For example we get Doucoure at 27 on a 3+option contract. He's (seemingly) a far superior talent than Schneiderlin, Gylfi and Bolasie yet all 3 of them signed 5yr contracts at the same age. 5 year contracts put all the risk on the club. 2-3 year contracts distributes much of the risk back to the player. It's definitely a sports culture difference between US and England. We're so quick to sign a player to an extension that still has 2-3 years left on their current contract. I've never been a fan of that. If you want to reward a player simply increase his wage and release clause. Nothing says you have to make the contract longer until there is 1 year left on it. I understand what you’re getting at but in this instance there age had more of an influence on the length of the contract than who they were, I would also guess that Allan and Rodriguez wouldn’t have entertained even talking to us if it wasn’t for Ancelotti, and he would have been at the forefront of the negotiations, I haven’t looked but I believe you would be hard pressed to find many 29 year olds been offered a 4-5 year contract in the PL especially on the sort of money they are on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbanyNYToffee Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, Palfy said: I understand what you’re getting at but in this instance there age had more of an influence on the length of the contract than who they were, I would also guess that Allan and Rodriguez wouldn’t have entertained even talking to us if it wasn’t for Ancelotti, and he would have been at the forefront of the negotiations, I haven’t looked but I believe you would be hard pressed to find many 29 year olds been offered a 4-5 year contract in the PL especially on the sort of money they are on. Yea fair enough I'm inclined to agree...especially since that would be a very tedious search. Even if we want to assign different amounts of credit to Brands, let's just continue to marvel that Carlo is our manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 43 minutes ago, AlbanyNYToffee said: Yea fair enough I'm inclined to agree...especially since that would be a very tedious search. Even if we want to assign different amounts of credit to Brands, let's just continue to marvel that Carlo is our manager In all fairness to yourself I searched and found that Arsenal I think offered Willian a 3 year deal at 30 nearly 31 I think, so it does happen, although in this case the extra year may have been an inducement because he was a free. Let’s definitely marvel at the fact Carlo is our manager and hopefully saviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 11 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: Technically, it was a three year extension. So it wasn't surprising in the slightest. Technically you’re spot on but the point still stands as it extends him to five. Also let’s be fair other than a very good lockdown period he was average at best and I think most would argue that he could fall into the same bracket as others mentioned. .......unless Barcelona buy him for 50 million and I’ll eat my words! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Palfy said: Yes but only in hindsight are they 3 of our top signings, they could have quite easily have been flops, the facts are he is no genius he does give out 4 and 5 year contracts, but like anyone with an ounce of sense you don’t do that to players of that are 29 years old. I’m telling you now if he would have been here when Gylfi Schneiderlin Bolasie Sandro they would have all ended up with the same length of contract, he’s not the guy you make out that only dish’s out 2 and 3 year contracts, that was done purely because of their age not their ability or their profile. Spot on, if James was 25 he wouldn’t be getting a two year (option for a third contract). I think Brands has done well on the price negotiation front but as Palf said I think anyone with half a brain wouldn’t give a 29 year old a decent waged 5 year deal. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 I think the better example is Doucoure. As Albany pointed out he is on a 3+ contract rather than the 5 years for the like of Siggy, Bolasie etc. Furthermore, I would imagine Walsh would have given James a 10 year contract if it would have brought him here and no doubt he would have been on 300k a week if Sandro is anything to go by. A big example is this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/man-utd-alexis-sanchez-contract-22465769.amp This is Manchester Utd desperate to try and get a player who was world class because he could have gone elsewhere (and I think was likely to go to City). Its very much in the same way James could have gone elsewhere or saw out his deal. These players go on bumper wages and an elongated deal because for the player its a form of security. One last pay deal in Europe before they either retire or bugger off to China for a year or two. That could have been us with James, but Brands hasnt done that. It doesn't mean he is a mastermind or anything like that, it just shows he knows the time of day. That is a huge improvement on what we had before and whilst it should be quietly applauded, there won't be any statues erected just yet. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bailey said: I think the better example is Doucoure. As Albany pointed out he is on a 3+ contract rather than the 5 years for the like of Siggy, Bolasie etc. Furthermore, I would imagine Walsh would have given James a 10 year contract if it would have brought him here and no doubt he would have been on 300k a week if Sandro is anything to go by. A big example is this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/man-utd-alexis-sanchez-contract-22465769.amp This is Manchester Utd desperate to try and get a player who was world class because he could have gone elsewhere (and I think was likely to go to City). Its very much in the same way James could have gone elsewhere or saw out his deal. These players go on bumper wages and an elongated deal because for the player its a form of security. One last pay deal in Europe before they either retire or bugger off to China for a year or two. That could have been us with James, but Brands hasnt done that. It doesn't mean he is a mastermind or anything like that, it just shows he knows the time of day. That is a huge improvement on what we had before and whilst it should be quietly applauded, there won't be any statues erected just yet. Getting James for £12 million is the master deal the rest is just common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 10, 2020 Report Share Posted September 10, 2020 12 hours ago, barryj said: Technically you’re spot on but the point still stands as it extends him to five. Also let’s be fair other than a very good lockdown period he was average at best and I think most would argue that he could fall into the same bracket as others mentioned. .......unless Barcelona buy him for 50 million and I’ll eat my words! Plus Willian is world class and will always hold a sell on fee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 26, 2020 Report Share Posted September 26, 2020 https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/niels-nkounkou-everton-transfer-news-18996462 Romey 1878, markjazzbassist and Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 3, 2020 Report Share Posted October 3, 2020 https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/carlo-ancelotti-praises-fantastic-work-19041130 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted October 3, 2020 Report Share Posted October 3, 2020 As he is on the board, lets hope signing a new contract is a formality. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/marcel-brands-contract-everton-news-19143346 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 yeah i've been thinking about this one. overall in my opinion, he has done more good than bad. he seems to get along with everyone and is a net positive, i think he should be extended. i am wondering though if moshiri who we all know loves a big name is instead thinking of some big name retread, a leonardo, or someone who's worked with Carlo before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 Just now, markjazzbassist said: yeah i've been thinking about this one. overall in my opinion, he has done more good than bad. he seems to get along with everyone and is a net positive, i think he should be extended. i am wondering though if moshiri who we all know loves a big name is instead thinking of some big name retread, a leonardo, or someone who's worked with Carlo before. Moshiri wanted Brands from the off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Romey 1878 said: Moshiri wanted Brands from the off. yes, i just think he loves the glamour names and if there is some possibility of "big shot sporting director" being available or coming cheaply due to Carlo, i can see him thinking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 I will shocked to the core of we don’t extend his contract. Think this is a nothing to speak of, so let’s just make something from nothing article. Brands is part of a revival, and Moshiri is an established business man. He knows the term... if it’s not broke! Btay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 Brands is on the board so I cant imagine him not extending, unless he wants to take a back seat and focus on his board responsibilities. pete0 and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 I can’t believe Brands is 58?! Hes 22 years older than me, but I’m sure he looks younger than I do! markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 1 hour ago, London Blue said: Brands is on the board so I cant imagine him not extending, unless he wants to take a back seat and focus on his board responsibilities. He’s a non-executive member though isn’t he? So i imagine he’d leave totally if we don’t renew with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggytop Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 1 hour ago, StevO said: I can’t believe Brands is 58?! Hes 22 years older than me, but I’m sure he looks younger than I do! Feck, you must have had a hard/good time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Wiggytop said: Feck, you must have had a hard/good time! My waistline and the bags under my eyes will prove I had a good time. As will my GP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 No brainer to renew. Who else is available? Steve Walsh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 17 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: He’s a non-executive member though isn’t he? So i imagine he’d leave totally if we don’t renew with him. True, but I think the fact we appointed him to the board to me means he is part of the long term future of the club, otherwise why appoint him? StevO and Btay 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Brands seems a classy man and I think he represents our Club in a fantastic manner. I think he’s done an excellent job personally. Romey 1878, AlbanyNYToffee, pete0 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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