Ifs, buts and Maybes

[Palfy]

From the very off I was completely against VAR and have complained about it from then till now, what we are seeing now is referees not making some of the big decisions on the pitch that they would normally do, they are now relying on VAR another ref to tell them they have missed a big decision and need to review it, but if the VAR ref doesn’t bring it to the attention of the on pitch ref could he be because he has been influenced by the ref not blowing in the first place so no reviews are made and a poor decision goes unpunished. But it’s no conspiracy against us from above to get us relegated it’s poor refereeing made even worse by a shit system. 

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, Elston Gunnn said:

I’m confused by your thinking here, as I can’t see any chance Arsenal will want to do anything other than smash us.  Arsenal and Spurs are fighting for 4th and Champions League.  Arsenal have their fate in their own hands, as they can finish on 72 points to Spurs’ max of 71, but only if the Gunners take 3 points today away to Newcastle and then all 3 from us.

Whether Arsenal take 3, 1, or 0 points tonight at Newcastle, they will surely think they absolutely must take 3 from our match.

Spurs are now on 68, with a massive GD lead over Arsenal, in case of a tie.  Arsenal are at 66.

So, if Arsenal win tonight, they move ahead of Spurs, 69-68, and will take 4th by beating Everton, no matter the result of Norwich-Spurs.

If Arsenal draw at Newcastle tonight, they stay below Spurs, 67-68, and thus must beat Everton and hope that Spurs stumble and either draw or lose at Norwich.

If Arsenal lose tonight, they stay 2 points behind Spurs at 66-68.  Then their only hope is to beat Everton and hope Spurs lose to Norwich.

But in every scenario, Arsenal will want to beat us, even badly.

I do agree that Arsenal will want us safe before Sunday’s match, but not so much because they can then feel fine about smashing us, but because if we’re safe, they’re all the more likely to be able to smash our flip-flop-wearing lads.

Edit — Ha, it’s just possible I missed some sarcasm in your post.  If so, good for you, not so good for me......

Basically my thinking is:-

if arsenal win tonight, then they need to beat us to get 4th.   They know that they would get a very tough time if we don’t beat palace.  If we beat palace then we would likely be fielding players like Davies, Dele etc and yeah more than likely take it easy. 
 

So…. I’m sure they may be saying “Patrick…. Let them have 3 points on Thursday”

conversely if Newcastle get 3 points then arsenal may be completely done knowing that Norwich will not get anything from spurs. 

[Elston Gunnn]

47 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Basically my thinking is:-

if arsenal win tonight, then they need to beat us to get 4th.   They know that they would get a very tough time if we don’t beat palace.  If we beat palace then we would likely be fielding players like Davies, Dele etc and yeah more than likely take it easy. 
 

So…. I’m sure they may be saying “Patrick…. Let them have 3 points on Thursday”

conversely if Newcastle get 3 points then arsenal may be completely done knowing that Norwich will not get anything from spurs. 

I’m going with your thinking, especially now that Arsenal have dropped all 3 points at Newcastle, 2-0!  Stunning loss, I must say.  Perhaps others saw it coming, I don’t know.

Here’s to hoping we are safe after the Palace match, but if not, perhaps Arsenal are now totally deflated.  And if on Sunday afternoon they are somehow hallucinating that Norwich might win, let’s hope Spurs are leading Norwich 0-3 after 15 minutes.

[The Phoenix]

1 minute ago, Elston Gunnn said:

I’m going with your thinking, especially now that Arsenal have dropped all 3 points at Newcastle, 2-0!  Stunning loss, I must say.  Perhaps others saw it coming, I don’t know.

Here’s to hoping we are safe after the Palace match, but if not, perhaps Arsenal are now totally deflated.  And if on Sunday afternoon they are somehow hallucinating that Norwich might win, let’s hope Spurs are leading Norwich 0-3 after 15 minutes.

The worrying thing now is that after their horror showing tonight some players are playing for their futures. 

[Hafnia]

8 minutes ago, Elston Gunnn said:

I’m going with your thinking, especially now that Arsenal have dropped all 3 points at Newcastle, 2-0!  Stunning loss, I must say.  Perhaps others saw it coming, I don’t know.

Here’s to hoping we are safe after the Palace match, but if not, perhaps Arsenal are now totally deflated.  And if on Sunday afternoon they are somehow hallucinating that Norwich might win, let’s hope Spurs are leading Norwich 0-3 after 15 minutes.

Spurs only need a point at Norwich.  The arsenal fans will be very quiet if spurs get an early goal and it will be weird for their players.

Tim Cahill needs to get on the blower to arteta and offer them dcl for £30m if needs must. 

 

[Gwlad]

12 minutes ago, The Phoenix said:

The worrying thing now is that after their horror showing tonight some players are playing for their futures. 

No doubt about it they will be up for a win at home.

[Elston Gunnn]

1 minute ago, Hafnia said:

Spurs only need a point at Norwich.  The arsenal fans will be very quiet if spurs get an early goal and it will be weird for their players.

Tim Cahill needs to get on the blower to arteta and offer them dcl for £30m if needs must. 

 

Well, now that I’ve become a convert to “Hafnia-thinking” — a development that will not go over well with, say, absolutely everyone on TT — I begin to see all sorts of optimistic scenarios.

Maybe Burnley will lose away to Villa, and this Newcastle bunch will take a point at Burnley.

Maybe we’ll smash Palace 4-1.

Or, as you say, if needs must, sell ‘em DCL for, heck, £10m.  Give away any single player, or any almost any 4 or 5, 7 or 8 for that matter, to stay up.

 

[Wall Writer]

A point may well be enough to keep us up, and Crystal Palace are not a side you can just expect to walk over.

Having said that we have been playing much better lately. And if not for the red card (first one) at the weekend then we would have won that game.

We should have made ourselves safe by now - but zero points from Watford and Brentford as well as the Burnley loss have left us in this precarious position.

It's not that we are playing shit football that scares me, it's the fact the we have an uncanny ability to fuck ourselves over that's the most worrying part.

[Hafnia]

48 minutes ago, Elston Gunnn said:

Well, now that I’ve become a convert to “Hafnia-thinking” — a development that will not go over well with, say, absolutely everyone on TT — I begin to see all sorts of optimistic scenarios.

Maybe Burnley will lose away to Villa, and this Newcastle bunch will take a point at Burnley.

Maybe we’ll smash Palace 4-1.

Or, as you say, if needs must, sell ‘em DCL for, heck, £10m.  Give away any single player, or any almost any 4 or 5, 7 or 8 for that matter, to stay up.

 

I mean it’s not like conversations like “refs you must try and make the battle at either end go to last game of the season cos it earns loads of money” ……

[Goodison Glory]

Let's hope Eddie howe remembers the club he supported as a boy and keep his side at it against Burnley 

[Hafnia]

19 minutes ago, Goodison Glory said:

Let's hope Eddie howe remembers the club he supported as a boy and keep his side at it against Burnley 

They have the potential to go 9th if they win… £10m in revenue. Howe will have them at it. 

[Matt]

7 hours ago, Hafnia said:

They have the potential to go 9th if they win… £10m in revenue. Howe will have them at it. 

Plus he'll be wanting to keep his job with the amount of money they're going to be spending on players this summer too 

[Romey 1878]

52 minutes ago, Matt said:

Plus he'll be wanting to keep his job with the amount of money they're going to be spending on players this summer too 

Already talk that they'll go for Mourinho in the summer.

[Hafnia]

Not sure how many times I’ve heard “race at the top and bottom”….. on radio on tv.    This is what it’s all about isn’t it… nothing to do with fairness, it’s about money and tv and spin offs that generate interest and money. 
 

they want everything to go to the wire, corruption, fixing, narrative…. Whatever -  it’s wrong. 
 

we have also been masters of our own downfall - Burnley and Watford away, nightmares over that. 

[Romey 1878]

I'm already feeling sick about Thursday, I'll be a wreck by the time it comes to make my way over to the ground!

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

I'm already feeling sick about Thursday, I'll be a wreck by the time it comes to make my way over to the ground!

It’s not normal to be like this, it’s weird to think that we let it bother us like this. 

unfortunately mate it’s all pantomime now, the only genuine element that remains from football is the fans… and they are being shafted. 

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Don’t know how true it is but I’ve been sent a photo of Michael Oliver in a bar and the bloke reckons he is in the same golf club as him and that he is best mates with his dad , supposedly he was laughing about the Everton game and admitted he should have sent the Brentford player off but wanted Pickford relegated ( Oliver is a big Newcastle fan )

 

[Sibdane]

4 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Don’t know how true it is but I’ve been sent a photo of Michael Oliver in a bar and the bloke reckons he is in the same golf club as him and that he is best mates with his dad , supposedly he was laughing about the Everton game and admitted he should have sent the Brentford player off but wanted Pickford relegated ( Oliver is a big Newcastle fan )

 

Even if the PL/FA found that out to be true they would do fuck all either way. 

[The Phoenix]

4 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Don’t know how true it is but I’ve been sent a photo of Michael Oliver in a bar and the bloke reckons he is in the same golf club as him and that he is best mates with his dad , supposedly he was laughing about the Everton game and admitted he should have sent the Brentford player off but wanted Pickford relegated ( Oliver is a big Newcastle fan )

 

Sounds like someone’s blowing smoke up your arse dude. If he felt any of that stuff you can guarantee he wouldn’t be saying that to anyone. He’s partial to an occasional mistake but he’s one of the only decent ones out there. Plus it’s a World Cup year so he’s not going to risk his chances with a fuck up like that

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, The Phoenix said:

Sounds like someone’s blowing smoke up your arse dude. If he felt any of that stuff you can guarantee he wouldn’t be saying that to anyone. He’s partial to an occasional mistake but he’s one of the only decent ones out there. Plus it’s a World Cup year so he’s not going to risk his chances with a fuck up like that

He’s a Newcastle fan, we have a mackem goalkeeper and their fans hate us.   Don’t underestimate unconscious bias, he knows his fellow fans would love him for shafting us. 

[Bailey]

FWIW Oliver also just bottled a decision to send a player off in extra time of this play off game for diving. 

 

[Gwlad]

Don't any of their powers that be ask any questions? Lunacy.

[Btay]

10 hours ago, RPG said:

According to BBC the sale of Chelsea could fall through and there is the possibility of the club being excluded from both Europe and the Premier League next season as a consequence. In the unlikely event that this actually happens, what are the chances of only 2 clubs being relegated from the Premier League I wonder?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/61467164

Quote:

"A deal which would allow the cash to be diverted during the deal would be a breach of sanctions and is seen as a red line for ministers."

The source added: "There are deadlines at the end of this month and the start of June, which would either see the club booted out of European competition or the Premier League entirely. But a good chunk of the sale needs to be done this week or next."

Unquote.

No chance unless it was a club like Brighton or some one similar. 

[Romey 1878]

20 hours ago, RPG said:

According to BBC the sale of Chelsea could fall through and there is the possibility of the club being excluded from both Europe and the Premier League next season as a consequence. In the unlikely event that this actually happens, what are the chances of only 2 clubs being relegated from the Premier League I wonder?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/61467164

Quote:

"A deal which would allow the cash to be diverted during the deal would be a breach of sanctions and is seen as a red line for ministers."

The source added: "There are deadlines at the end of this month and the start of June, which would either see the club booted out of European competition or the Premier League entirely. But a good chunk of the sale needs to be done this week or next."

Unquote.

 

9 hours ago, Btay said:

No chance unless it was a club like Brighton or some one similar. 

It's been sorted now.

[FairWooney]

I think we need to get over this thinking of "this team might take it easy to help that team" and "this team are on the beach" etc.

Whilst teams like Everton at the bottom and Liverpool/City will begiving that bit more to win a game than those sat in the middle managers are not sending their players out with an attitude of "let's not bother with this one".  Players want to score goals, keep clean sheets and win matches.  It's what they get paid for and it's what the manager gets paid to get them doing!

In the case of Crystal Palace league table wise they have quite a bit to play for, they are currently 13th but a win against us would take them right up to 9th (or 10th depending on Leicester's result) which is much more of an achievement for them league wise not to mention the money.  They could even still finish 8th with a final day win!

Arsenal will i'm sure do all they can to go out with a win at home in front of their home crowd and ensure that Spurs have to get a result in their game.

23 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Don’t know how true it is but I’ve been sent a photo of Michael Oliver in a bar and the bloke reckons he is in the same golf club as him and that he is best mates with his dad , supposedly he was laughing about the Everton game and admitted he should have sent the Brentford player off but wanted Pickford relegated ( Oliver is a big Newcastle fan )

 

If he said that in publicly in his Golf Club then he's a right tit!  Whether he was thinking it or not, if he said it he's majorly risking his job!

Also, i'm not sure that you could say that not giving a team a penalty shout whilst 1-0 up is particularly losing them the game.  He's not to know that 10 second later our last defender will be giving him a no choice red card to give!

[The Phoenix]

On 17/05/2022 at 18:27, Hafnia said:

He’s a Newcastle fan, we have a mackem goalkeeper and their fans hate us.   Don’t underestimate unconscious bias, he knows his fellow fans would love him for shafting us. 

You keep on telling yourself things like that dude if it helps you to deal with the situation we’re currently in as a club. Oliver and his cronies aren’t responsible for years of mismanagement at the highest level within our club. Nor are they for underperforming, overpaid players who have quite frankly been an embarrassment week in week out. Was he the deciding vote in the appointment of Benitez? We wouldn’t be in this position if we had better leadership in place and an actual plan for success instead of this slap dash approach. We can bury our heads in the sand and blame someone who is independent of the club or we can face up to the sad reality, we’re the fucking punchline of the shittest joke in football and until we get rid of the current regime we will struggle to get mid table never mind back into contention for Europe/trophies 

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, The Phoenix said:

You keep on telling yourself things like that dude if it helps you to deal with the situation we’re currently in as a club. Oliver and his cronies aren’t responsible for years of mismanagement at the highest level within our club. Nor are they for underperforming, overpaid players who have quite frankly been an embarrassment week in week out. Was he the deciding vote in the appointment of Benitez? We wouldn’t be in this position if we had better leadership in place and an actual plan for success instead of this slap dash approach. We can bury our heads in the sand and blame someone who is independent of the club or we can face up to the sad reality, we’re the fucking punchline of the shittest joke in football and until we get rid of the current regime we will struggle to get mid table never mind back into contention for Europe/trophies 

Let’s be 100% clear.  We aren’t in this mess because of referees but we would be out of relegation threat if it wasn’t for them. They have been a divisive factor- yes we should be better and not need them to be competent/non corrupt or whatever the view is. 
 

if you look at my posts I have been very clear as to where blame lies and it’s from boardroom to the players to the fans to a lesser extent. 
 

Some of the fans because they have applauded and supported an incompetent chairman and called Everton fans who seen this mess coming as “kopites”.   The players because they have played the manager merry go round to their advantage and played with minimal intensity for too long and seen managers off. 

[The Phoenix]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

Let’s be 100% clear.  We aren’t in this mess because of referees but we would be out of relegation threat if it wasn’t for them. They have been a divisive factor- yes we should be better and not need them to be competent/non corrupt or whatever the view is. 
 

if you look at my posts I have been very clear as to where blame lies and it’s from boardroom to the players to the fans to a lesser extent. 
 

Some of the fans because they have applauded and supported an incompetent chairman and called Everton fans who seen this mess coming as “kopites”.   The players because they have played the manager merry go round to their advantage and played with minimal intensity for too long and seen managers off. 

I get you, I’m just getting tired of all the shite talk that’s going on and us not going full tilt at the real problem. We’ve been riding our luck as a club for far to long now and it’s coming home to roost. Bad decisions aren’t helping our fight for safety but these fuckers in charge have been incompetent since day one. Luck shouldn’t be that big of an influence and the fact that it is says it all. We should be top 6 with what they’ve spent but instead were wallowing in mediocrity, relegation threatened and financially fucked

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

4 hours ago, The Phoenix said:

You keep on telling yourself things like that dude if it helps you to deal with the situation we’re currently in as a club. Oliver and his cronies aren’t responsible for years of mismanagement at the highest level within our club. Nor are they for underperforming, overpaid players who have quite frankly been an embarrassment week in week out. Was he the deciding vote in the appointment of Benitez? We wouldn’t be in this position if we had better leadership in place and an actual plan for success instead of this slap dash approach. We can bury our heads in the sand and blame someone who is independent of the club or we can face up to the sad reality, we’re the fucking punchline of the shittest joke in football and until we get rid of the current regime we will struggle to get mid table never mind back into contention for Europe/trophies 

Whilst the board and the disastrous recruitment are most definitely big factors in wht we are where we are surely you can see Refereeing decisions have also been a major factor

If you add up all the points we have lost because if ludicrous refereeing decisions we would be comfortably mid table now

[dunlopp9987]

23 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Whilst the board and the disastrous recruitment are most definitely big factors in wht we are where we are surely you can see Refereeing decisions have also been a major factor

If you add up all the points we have lost because if ludicrous refereeing decisions we would be comfortably mid table now

And again, I'm sure almost every other team in the league would say the same.

It's not a refereeing conspiracy against us, it's just shit refs across the board. That's all.