Rafael Benitez

[Wiggytop]

3 minutes ago, patto said:

Must admit I thought Mina was excellent last night Wood and Barnes are a handful and he battled them all night. 

He did, he gave them some like for like treatment as well, I loved it when Wood went down after a slight brush of the hand on his head.

[Btay]

6 minutes ago, Wiggytop said:

He did, he gave them some like for like treatment as well, I loved it when Wood went down after a slight brush of the hand on his head.

Mina won more aerial challenges over the weekend than any other defender in the premier league.

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, Btay said:

Mina won more aerial challenges over the weekend than any other defender in the premier league.

That can't be right, he never wins a header!

[pete0]

6 hours ago, Matt said:

Fucking hell, Pete. Pretty much every manager in the world gives 10-15 mins after the restart to see if the team talk worked. It didn't, we conceded, he changed things pretty much immediately, we scored 3 in 5 mins (bar the obvious offside). He saw his talk hadn't work and was a little slow in changing that's your complaint? At least he changed. The corrupt fucker you idolise as manager wouldn't have done a thing and just bemoaned the result. 

No team talk in the world would have made a difference. The tactics were killing us. 

If Alladyce done that no way would you credit him. The players bounced back after going 1 down and then steamrolled them.

6 hours ago, Hafnia said:

You would think that we have an elite squad of players who no matter what formation or tactics you use - they will get the result.

Couldn't be more wrong.   

Last season we lose that game.  Benitez studies the game intently, and I mean intently.   He is in a zone, passionate but totally immersed in what is going on.  You can see with the players - they are being coached, clear instructions, fitness.

Got ourselves a manager here.  

No I wouldn't. You're doing that thing we you make half the argument up again. Telling me I'm wrong about something you've just made up. 

Burnley play that way every week. He would have known what they were going to do. If he was this tactical genius we'd not be getting bummed by Burnley for an hour, and not wait until 1 down to change things. The result was in spite of him.

3 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Personally if Pete has it in for someone or doesn’t rate them I take it as a good sign that the said person is doing well!

Most recent are Sigurdsson (doesn't do enough off the ball and slows it too much on it), Silva (completely incompetent), and Keane (simply not good enough and knows it, plays for himself rather than the team). 

On the other side Iwobi just needing us to play faster. One which I find hard to believe split the fans, Pickford being a top keeper. DCL being better than Richi and Tosun. 

 

[Matt]

The Slob wouldn't have done it Pete, so there would be nothing to credit.

[pete0]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

The Slob wouldn't have done it Pete, so there would be nothing to credit.

Because he's never come back from one goal down? Benetiz is no better than Alladyce. Only difference is the fans never gave Alladyce a chance.

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Because he's never come back from one goal down? Benetiz is no better than Alladyce. Only difference is the fans never gave Alladyce a chance.

13 titles and common sense says otherwise. 

Fans giving an ex-kopite manager more of a chance than that scumbag speaks volumes really

[pete0]

6 minutes ago, Matt said:

13 titles and common sense says otherwise. 

Fans giving an ex-kopite manager more of a chance than that scumbag speaks volumes really

He won the championship at Newcastle compared to Alladyce not getting them relegated. Top manager...

[London Blue]

19 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Because he's never come back from one goal down? Benetiz is no better than Alladyce. Only difference is the fans never gave Alladyce a chance.

Benetiz was arguably more contentious than Allardyce.  But Rafa won the fans over with his hard work, vision for the team and ability. Not to mention his efforts to break down any barriers. 

Allardyce never took the time or effort to win over fans, never had a vision for the team that he shared with the fans. 

Basically Allardyce was just a knob who expected everyone to fall at his feet.

[pete0]

36 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Benetiz was arguably more contentious than Allardyce.  But Rafa won the fans over with his hard work, vision for the team and ability. Not to mention his efforts to break down any barriers. 

Allardyce never took the time or effort to win over fans, never had a vision for the team that he shared with the fans. 

Basically Allardyce was just a knob who expected everyone to fall at his feet.

Has he won fans over? He's won the happy to be mid table, were poor so can't expect any better, I wish David Moyes come back ones maybe.

Is Rafa any less of a knob? 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

He won the championship at Newcastle compared to Alladyce not getting them relegated. Top manager...

Are you for real? Or are you just a God tier troll?

[SpartyBlue]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Because he's never come back from one goal down? Benetiz is no better than Alladyce. Only difference is the fans never gave Alladyce a chance.

This is just pure bias. In any objective evaluation Rafa is far more accomplished. 

[dunlopp9987]

34 minutes ago, Matt said:

Are you for real? Or are you just a God tier troll?

I think we've learned the latter to be the truth

[pete0]

46 minutes ago, Matt said:

Are you for real? Or are you just a God tier troll?

You bragged about Benetiz's trophies. Yet his main accomplishment since 2005 is bringing Newcastle up. Steve Bruce has done a better job there. 

He left Liverpool with a much worse side than he started with to. 

[Matt]

Just now, pete0 said:

You bragged about Benetiz's trophies. Yet his main accomplishment since 2005 is bringing Newcastle up. Steve Bruce has done a better job there. 

He left Liverpool with a much worse side than he started with to. 

I did not brag. I pointed out that he had some, vs a corrupt narcissist who's done fuck all. 

Maybe troll is too generous.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

21 minutes ago, pete0 said:

You bragged about Benetiz's trophies. Yet his main accomplishment since 2005 is bringing Newcastle up. Steve Bruce has done a better job there. 

He left Liverpool with a much worse side than he started with to. 

Sorry Pete but you don’t half talk some bollocks at times. I seriously doubt you would find a single Newcastle fan that would agree with you about Steve Bruce. The Geordies were all dreaming of Rafa coming back if the take over ever happened

Likewise I sincerely doubt you would find any Kopites that agree with you

He was universally loved by both sets of fans but somehow you think you know better

Sometimes I honestly wonder whether you actually believe any of the crap you spout or whether you are just posting it for effect because you want to appear controversial

[Wiggytop]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

Because he's never come back from one goal down? Benetiz is no better than Alladyce. Only difference is the fans never gave Alladyce a chance.

Good job your not letting your opinion get in the way of reality.

Anyone remember the Watford home game under gravy tits, JJK was the first to have an attempt on goal on about 43 mins, oh how I wish we were still seeing that, rather than how we are this season, pace, shots on goal, and goals.

[Cornish Steve]

Let's see how we perform against mid-table teams and above. We're starting the season with a very easy schedule against teams we really should beat (Southampton, Leeds, Brighton, Burnley, Villa, Norwich). I'm reserving judgment on the manager for now. Sure, things are looking bright so far, but so they should be. We were in about the same spot last season after having played a tougher set of teams, so it's too early to know where things really stand.

[dunlopp9987]

1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

Let's see how we perform against mid-table teams and above. We're starting the season with a very easy schedule against teams we really should beat (Southampton, Leeds, Brighton, Burnley, Villa, Norwich). I'm reserving judgment on the manager for now. Sure, things are looking bright so far, but so they should be. We were in about the same spot last season after having played a tougher set of teams, so it's too early to know where things really stand.

Stop talking sense! Let me bask in these good times without thinking about the possible pitfalls! I'm a Virgo, I do that enough! 

[pete0]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

I did not brag. I pointed out that he had some, vs a corrupt narcissist who's done fuck all. 

Maybe troll is too generous.

You used trophies won with teams built by other people. Compare what they've both done in the league. Alladyce is more impressive, getting the likes of Bolton into Europe compared to Benetiz who has never overachieved at a club.

You said similar when I moaned about Silva.

2 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Sorry Pete but you don’t half talk some bollocks at times. I seriously doubt you would find a single Newcastle fan that would agree with you about Steve Bruce. The Geordies were all dreaming of Rafa coming back if the take over ever happened

Likewise I sincerely doubt you would find any Kopites that agree with you

He was universally loved by both sets of fans but somehow you think you know better

Sometimes I honestly wonder whether you actually believe any of the crap you spout or whether you are just posting it for effect because you want to appear controversial

So Geordies and kopites are your fountain of knowledge. Brilliant. 

They loved that he won a cup and called us a small club. If he was so great he'd still be there. They've only recovered from the mess he left recently. He's the reason they stopped getting champions League every season.

Controversial until proven true. Some of us are just more forward thinking than others. Or better yet form our own opinions. 

1 hour ago, Wiggytop said:

Good job your not letting your opinion get in the way of reality.

Anyone remember the Watford home game under gravy tits, JJK was the first to have an attempt on goal on about 43 mins, oh how I wish we were still seeing that, rather than how we are this season, pace, shots on goal, and goals.

What else could you do with the squad he had, there's a reason Koeman got sacked. Look at Alladyce with west Brom playing good football and beating Chelsea 5-2 away. You can only work with what you've got. Alladyce albeit a percentage football manager adapts, he got Anelka and Okocha to Bolton. Players too good for that type of football and adapted away from percentage to use/trust in their natural ability. Whereas we've got a percentage puritan who has turned the fans on one of the most naturally gifted players of my lifetime.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

41 minutes ago, pete0 said:

You used trophies won with teams built by other people. Compare what they've both done in the league. Alladyce is more impressive, getting the likes of Bolton into Europe compared to Benetiz who has never overachieved at a club.

You said similar when I moaned about Silva.

So Geordies and kopites are your fountain of knowledge. Brilliant. 

They loved that he won a cup and called us a small club. If he was so great he'd still be there. They've only recovered from the mess he left recently. He's the reason they stopped getting champions League every season.

Controversial until proven true. Some of us are just more forward thinking than others. Or better yet form our own opinions. 

What else could you do with the squad he had, there's a reason Koeman got sacked. Look at Alladyce with west Brom playing good football and beating Chelsea 5-2 away. You can only work with what you've got. Alladyce albeit a percentage football manager adapts, he got Anelka and Okocha to Bolton. Players too good for that type of football and adapted away from percentage to use/trust in their natural ability. Whereas we've got a percentage puritan who has turned the fans on one of the most naturally gifted players of my lifetime.

Pete “ Some of us are more forward thinking than others”

Also Pete “ Benitez is no better than Allardyce”

You come out with some whoppers Pete but this really is comedy gold , does it not occur to you that such a forwarding thinking visionary holding such a dinosaur as Allardyce in such high regard is just a little contradictory ?

 

[pete0]

36 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Pete “ Some of us are more forward thinking than others”

Also Pete “ Benitez is no better than Allardyce”

You come out with some whoppers Pete but this really is comedy gold , does it not occur to you that such a forwarding thinking visionary holding such a dinosaur as Allardyce in such high regard is just a little contradictory ?

 

I've named six things I've had to argue in the last three years. Care to let me know 6 I've been wrong about?

How is Alladyce any more of a dinosaur to Rafa?

[Shukes]

All o can see is that under Rafa…. So far…. We’ve been playing some good football, and he has been able to change things.

Under Alladyce, we played the worst football I have ever witnessed and became the neutrals bore team of the league. 
 

My choice is made.

[Palfy]

Rafa and Allardyce for me come from different ends of the spectrum when it comes to management, without getting into a heavy debate about who’s right or  who’s wrong. For me Rafa is a tactical manager who manages players to work in a system that he has finely tuned over the years, and Allardyce is a manager who doesn’t really have a great relationship with his players, he sets his team’s up how I would expect mathematician would, who is looking at the stats and then implements those with the highest percentage of success rate. 

[MikeO]

9 hours ago, Palfy said:

Rafa and Allardyce for me come from different ends of the spectrum when it comes to management, without getting into a heavy debate about who’s right or  who’s wrong. For me Rafa is a tactical manager who manages players to work in a system that he has finely tuned over the years, and Allardyce is a manager who doesn’t really have a great relationship with his players, he sets his team’s up how I would expect mathematician would, who is looking at the stats and then implements those with the highest percentage of success rate. 

Benitez is clever and Allardyce is a twat would've been quicker to type mate

[Matt]

10 hours ago, pete0 said:

I've named six things I've had to argue in the last three years. Care to let me know 6 I've been wrong about?

How is Alladyce any more of a dinosaur to Rafa?

Champions League winner vs gravy tits. 

What are the 6? I'm genuinely excited to see.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

10 hours ago, pete0 said:

I've named six things I've had to argue in the last three years. Care to let me know 6 I've been wrong about?

How is Alladyce any more of a dinosaur to Rafa?

You are hopelessly wrong about Fat Sam in every conceivable way

You are wrong about Benitez in general but ridiculously wrong about the jobs he did at both the Shite and Newcastle  

Wrong about both Pienner & Baines

Wrong about Jagielka

Wrong about Funes Mori

Wrong about Gana

There will be way more than that but can’t be arsed anymore so will leave it there

 

 

 

 

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://eplanalysis.com/analysis/data-analysis-everton-premier-league/

[Btay]

Fat Sam had no risk in joining us. We gave him £50 million pounds and he got us Tosun and Walcott. If we got relegated with him he would have held his hands up and said there was nothing he could do. We played Man city and had less possession than Fernandinho…. 

Rafa took this job and his reputation is on the line massively with what he knew would be a hostile fan base. We’ve given him £1.7 million and he is making it work seemingly better than all the managers we backed before him. This whole defensive Rafa stereotype needs to go as well.

We’re organised and effective.

[Zoo 2.0]

I think that Allardyce gets a lot more stick than he deserves, but is there really a debate about who is better between him and Benitez ? Some of the points/opinions raised to back up such claim simply aren't true either.

9 minutes ago, Btay said:

Rafa took this job and his reputation is on the line massively with what he knew would be a hostile fan base. We’ve given him £1.7 million and he is making it work seemingly better than all the managers we backed before him. This whole defensive Rafa stereotype needs to go as well.

We’re organised and effective.

I'll happily play "defensive" football if it means we can sit joint top of the league and have a GD of +6 . Totally agree that, as you say we are organised and effective - the stats back it up.