Frank Lampard

[Cornish Steve]

51 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I just don’t get why people hate Lampard, he took on a right poison chalice with this job. We aren’t in this mess because of him we are in this mess because we have been constantly chopping and changing managers and some people want to do it all again

IMO whatever happens he should keep his job. If we go down why sack him?

Who do people think are going to want the job if we are in the Championship next season? Also it’s not just Lampard, he has put together a very good back room team and I think they need to be given time

 

We're in this mess because of Rafael Benitez. While there could be improvements at the board level, Ancelotti, if you remember, beat several top teams last season. Benitez, on the other hand, managed to get hammered at home by Watford.

[MC11]

2 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Not sure what type of wager we can make online, but I'll wager, if we stay up, he and his team will last at least a full season.

Profile picture has to be a plant pot for 12 months. 

[Cornish Steve]

3 minutes ago, MC11 said:

Profile picture has to be a plant pot for 12 months. 

And your picture must be Boris Johnson for 12 months. Is it a deal?

[MC11]

6 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

And your picture must be Boris Johnson for 12 months. Is it a deal?

You’re on

[barryj]

As if I needed anymore incentive to want us to stay up. 

[Btay]

1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

We're in this mess because of Rafael Benitez. While there could be improvements at the board level, Ancelotti, if you remember, beat several top teams last season. Benitez, on the other hand, managed to get hammered at home by Watford.

Moshiri has to take a majority of the blame. 

[Romey 1878]

7 hours ago, Btay said:

Moshiri has to take a majority of the blame. 

Bad decision after bad decision from him is why we are where we are. The rest of them are just supporting actors to this absolute shit show.

Hiring that prick and keeping him for so long are just two of the most recent of his bad decisions and seem to be the ones that have put the nail in our coffin, which makes them look even worse.

[patto]

I don’t get this putting all the blame on Moshiri yes his appointment with Benitez was a catastrophe waiting to happen but prior to that the managers we employed were awful in the transfer market. 
koeman was a disaster. 
I still say the best coach was silver and the players got him sacked. 

[Btay]

5 minutes ago, patto said:

I don’t get this putting all the blame on Moshiri yes his appointment with Benitez was a catastrophe waiting to happen but prior to that the managers we employed were awful in the transfer market. 
koeman was a disaster. 
I still say the best coach was silver and the players got him sacked. 

Moshiri sacked Martinez to get a “big name” in. He is responsible for Koeman and Walsh spending an absurd amount of money on absolute trash.

I liked Marco Silva but again we were weak and sold him when at this point we needed to double down on our players and the weak culture at the club. 
 

Then Rafa - disgraceful, disgraceful decision. I supported him best I could but we should have never done it.

Season by season we’ve lost a little bit more of what I means to be an Everton player until we’ve capitulated to this mess. ( I believe Lampard can bring that back… eventually ) 

[Wiggytop]

20 minutes ago, Btay said:

Moshiri sacked Martinez to get a “big name” in. He is responsible for Koeman and Walsh spending an absurd amount of money on absolute trash.

I liked Marco Silva but again we were weak and sold him when at this point we needed to double down on our players and the weak culture at the club. 
 

Then Rafa - disgraceful, disgraceful decision. I supported him best I could but we should have never done it.

Season by season we’ve lost a little bit more of what I means to be an Everton player until we’ve capitulated to this mess. ( I believe Lampard can bring that back… eventually ) 

All spot on for me, well said, and I think most are clinging on to the last sentence being right.

[Matt]

11 hours ago, MC11 said:

Why are we so reliant on penalty decisions? The fact that we are says everything about it 

Because City and that lot are light-years ahead. Whether you think we're reliant on them or not, and I'm not arguing there, isn't relevant. The point is it's better for the money men if the title race is close and both clubs having blatant penalties not given, ensuring that at that point in the game there's no points lost, keeps that title race close and the bookies et Al rich. 

[barryj]

33 minutes ago, patto said:

I don’t get this putting all the blame on Moshiri yes his appointment with Benitez was a catastrophe waiting to happen but prior to that the managers we employed were awful in the transfer market. 
koeman was a disaster. 
I still say the best coach was silver and the players got him sacked. 

Why get a director of football then? The problem has been the appointment of managers that have footballing styles/philosophy that are poles apart. When they’ve inevitably get sacked we end up with a patch work quilt of a squad that can’t be shoehorned into a cohesive team. What needed to happen was for Moshiri to let Brands set a type/style of play from top to bottom of the club and then appoint mangers that fit this vision. For me it’s on Moshiri. How he still pumps money in and builds the stadium is commendable but the worrying part is he’s still not learnt. 

[Hafnia]

Fans will be looking to blame someone  - managers are the easiest target as they are singular and take responsibility for the teams performance...... that's a fact.

The players out on that pitch are the ones who win or lose points.  Sadly for us we have a group of players who generally are pathetic... not necessarily all of them - if everyone played like Gordon every game we would be up the league.  Iwobi has reacted to the manager coming in, but where was this player in the last couple of years?

The club is an absolute joke from top to bottom. Kenwright has bought in 2 money men to our club - Phillip Green and Moshiri who have absolutely no place to make decisions that impact the players on the pitch... but they have.  

If I was the world biggest Evertonian and I witnessed the latest clown getting transfer tips from the snake who destroyed QPR (Kia) - I would resign and cite my reasons.... but he didnt.  Amanda Staverley (yep Newcastle) brokered the deal to sell Man City to Mansour - but not after she had approached Kenwright with an interest of buying Everton.  Didnt happen did it....

Moshiri, Kenwright, Walsh and Koeman were taking it in turn to pick players - all bought in on mega wages and transfer fees that no one else would pay and it didnt stop did it.

Our club has been absolutely destroyed - yet fans have resisted groups of Evertonians who wanted answers and for the board to be held accountable for years now.  Oh.... when we get relegated there will be cries for protests wont there?  Will Bills stooges take some video footage of him and beam on on the stadium screens to see if he gets a round of applause??? I doubt it.

Chickens have come home to roost.  Kenwright needs to leave and escape the vitriol that will be aimed at him - it wouldnt be undeserved but it wouldnt be right because he is an old man who's ego has allowed this situation to happen.  I don't doubt he is hurting but he is too arrogant to have seen that he needed to go a long time ago and his churlish responses to valid questions will have hurt his legacy.

We need our club back - the fans need to not applaud players who want to leave - they need to stop fawning over a chairman cos he's not a kopite.  We need to demand and expect the best and if its not being delivered then bloody protest

 

 

 

 

 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, barryj said:

Why get a director of football then? The problem has been the appointment of managers that have footballing styles/philosophy that are poles apart. When they’ve inevitably get sacked we end up with a patch work quilt of a squad that can’t be shoehorned into a cohesive team. What needed to happen was for Moshiri to let Brands set a type/style of play from top to bottom of the club and then appoint mangers that fit this vision. For me it’s on Moshiri. How he still pumps money in and builds the stadium is commendable but the worrying part is he’s still not learnt. 

Why? It was the fashionable thing to do. 

[Bailey]

The jury is still out for me on Lampard.

There are some things I like and some things I don't. I thought he was probably a bit naive early on in his time here but he seems to have realised what is needed now.

My biggest issue at the moment is the lack of chances. Since he has come in, the only game we have comfortably out-created the opposition was the Leeds game. The only times we have achieved a higher xG than the opposition are the Leeds, Burnley (2 penalties) and Leicester games.

We don't have the greatest finishers in the world either so we need to start creating more chances.

[patto]

7 minutes ago, Bailey said:

The jury is still out for me on Lampard.

There are some things I like and some things I don't. I thought he was probably a bit naive early on in his time here but he seems to have realised what is needed now.

My biggest issue at the moment is the lack of chances. Since he has come in, the only game we have comfortably out-created the opposition was the Leeds game. The only times we have achieved a higher xG than the opposition are the Leeds, Burnley (2 penalties) and Leicester games.

We don't have the greatest finishers in the world either so we need to start creating more chances.

You can only work with the players you have and we’ve been decimated with injury’s and suspension. 

[barryj]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

Why? It was the fashionable thing to do. 

I’d say keeping up with the times as fashion comes and goes. The evidence that we didn’t use one as they’re meant to be utilised has manifested itself into the mess we have today and shows why the role exists. If it doesn’t you have to have people that the relevant football knowledge which we clearly don’t. 

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, patto said:

You can only work with the players you have and we’ve been decimated with injury’s and suspension. 

Be honest did you give Rafa that excuse or did you just blame him for our position?

[Palfy]

7 hours ago, barryj said:

Why get a director of football then? The problem has been the appointment of managers that have footballing styles/philosophy that are poles apart. When they’ve inevitably get sacked we end up with a patch work quilt of a squad that can’t be shoehorned into a cohesive team. What needed to happen was for Moshiri to let Brands set a type/style of play from top to bottom of the club and then appoint mangers that fit this vision. For me it’s on Moshiri. How he still pumps money in and builds the stadium is commendable but the worrying part is he’s still not learnt. 

What we needed was a manager given a realistic amount of time, and Moshiri to stop interfering on signings. 

[Cornish Steve]

25 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Be honest did you give Rafa that excuse or did you just blame him for our position?

Go check the starting lineup against Watford at home. Townsend played and is now injured. Davies played and is now injured. Digne played and was later pushed out. We were 2-1 up at home and conceded four goals in 12 minutes. How is that Moshiri's fault? Benitez brought on no sub during those minutes, which is criminal. Just before it, instead of shoring up the defence to protect the lead, he replaced Gordon with Richarlison and Gray with Iwobi - even while keeping Rondon on the field. That is appalling game management.

[memmaclub2]

32 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Be honest did you give Rafa that excuse or did you just blame him for our position?

I think both managers have to take responsibility for the results. I agree all the club problems are there but s manager you come in knowing that. Rafa is long in the tooth he knew what he was going to be like and he didn't deliver so he was sacked. Frank wasn't my first choice and needs to be blamed for his results but he came into a team low on confidence and a toxic dressing room at the point he came in staying up had to be the goal.  Rafa was never the answer in my opinion and his appointment showed a real lack of understanding of the club.

[Palfy]

31 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Go check the starting lineup against Watford at home. Townsend played and is now injured. Davies played and is now injured. Digne played and was later pushed out. We were 2-1 up at home and conceded four goals in 12 minutes. How is that Moshiri's fault? Benitez brought on no sub during those minutes, which is criminal. Just before it, instead of shoring up the defence to protect the lead, he replaced Gordon with Richarlison and Gray with Iwobi - even while keeping Rondon on the field. That is appalling game management.

So in your informative wisdom are you now saying Townsend and Davies are better than those who have been playing, if so tell us the two who you would drop for them, if not why the fuck mention it, and Mykolenko is a big improvement on Digne who has been poor for eighteen months and hasn’t improved at Villa. Moshiri is responsible for interfering with recruitment by putting a block on players that DoF and managers wanted and bringing players in they didn’t, and signing managers against DoF advice. So you  think us going to Spurs and getting hammered because of suicidal tactics is good management or losing the most important game for years against Burnley since Wimbledon is acceptable. Look at the table when Rafa left and look at the table now, and then get back to me with the improvement that you’ve witnessed since he left, I could do with a laugh. 

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, memmaclub2 said:

I think both managers have to take responsibility for the results. I agree all the club problems are there but s manager you come in knowing that. Rafa is long in the tooth he knew what he was going to be like and he didn't deliver so he was sacked. Frank wasn't my first choice and needs to be blamed for his results but he came into a team low on confidence and a toxic dressing room at the point he came in staying up had to be the goal.  Rafa was never the answer in my opinion and his appointment showed a real lack of understanding of the club.

I’m not defending Rafa as I’m not defending Lampard, I agree with you they are both equally lacking what we needed as a team, sacking Rafa fair enough but sacking Rafa and bringing in any manager that didn’t have the experience and learned mechanisms to fight a relegation battle imo was ridiculous, I would have stuck with Rafa if the option was to give the gig to Lampard in the position we were in, he hasn’t done better as people like Steve seem to think, he’s actually done slightly worse when you look at points and goal difference compared to Rafa, not that that makes Rafa good it doesn’t, but it proves Lampard’s style of football hasn’t improved our situation, now we are starting to see a Rafa style starting to be played, but with a very important ingredient missing Lampard’s games are miles behind Rafa’s when it comes to attempts at goal and on target, but both have suffered with poor finishing and defending mistakes, and more because of the quality of the players than the quality of the managers. Welcome Moshiri the owner who believes he knows better than anyone he’s employed when it comes to player recruitment. 

[StevO]

4 hours ago, Palfy said:

So in your informative wisdom are you now saying Townsend and Davies are better than those who have been playing, if so tell us the two who you would drop for them, if not why the fuck mention it, and Mykolenko is a big improvement on Digne who has been poor for eighteen months and hasn’t improved at Villa. Moshiri is responsible for interfering with recruitment by putting a block on players that DoF and managers wanted and bringing players in they didn’t, and signing managers against DoF advice. So you  think us going to Spurs and getting hammered because of suicidal tactics is good management or losing the most important game for years against Burnley since Wimbledon is acceptable. Look at the table when Rafa left and look at the table now, and then get back to me with the improvement that you’ve witnessed since he left, I could do with a laugh. 

Rafa won one of his last 14 I think. 
Frank has won three of his first 10 or so. Probably not completely accurate, but while our league position has deteriorated our form has improved.
At the start of Rafa’s decline he was higher up the table, granted he got us there with the good form in the first month of the season but from a blank slate at the start of the season. 
Frank took a team in free fall, and though we still carried on falling, at least one of the parachutes has opened. Hopefully the emergency shoot does too. 

[StevO]

Just found the stats. (This is all comps not just league)
Rafa won seven of his 22 games, Frank has won five of his 15. Rafa won three of his last 15, actually three of his last 17 as he lost two before that. 
 

Rafa winning four and drawing one of his first five put us in a great position, if it wasn’t for that early season form we would seriously be in the shit. But to win three of the next 17 is terrible, and Frank has managed to do better by winning five of 15. In all comps still, I’ve had a long day and won’t be filtering stuff. The not so easy bit is the fact we need to win a few more, quickly. 
 

One other thing that I’ve got to be really clear on, going to Goodison wasn’t really a happy experience under Rafa. It was a strange one, there wasn’t a feeling of togetherness. It felt disjointed. It wasn’t toxic (until the end) it just wasn’t together. One thing that has happened with Frank coming in is that the crowd are behind him, there is a togetherness, I don’t doubt the situation has forced it, but the ground is fully behind him and together. I don’t think anyone thinks he’s perfect, but Goodison park is a better place to be, if only it wasn’t in such shit circumstances. 

[Palfy]

10 minutes ago, StevO said:

Just found the stats. (This is all comps not just league)
Rafa won seven of his 22 games, Frank has won five of his 15. Rafa won three of his last 15, actually three of his last 17 as he lost two before that. 
 

Rafa winning four and drawing one of his first five put us in a great position, if it wasn’t for that early season form we would seriously be in the shit. But to win three of the next 17 is terrible, and Frank has managed to do better by winning five of 15. In all comps still, I’ve had a long day and won’t be filtering stuff. The not so easy bit is the fact we need to win a few more, quickly. 
 

One other thing that I’ve got to be really clear on, going to Goodison wasn’t really a happy experience under Rafa. It was a strange one, there wasn’t a feeling of togetherness. It felt disjointed. It wasn’t toxic (until the end) it just wasn’t together. One thing that has happened with Frank coming in is that the crowd are behind him, there is a togetherness, I don’t doubt the situation has forced it, but the ground is fully behind him and together. I don’t think anyone thinks he’s perfect, but Goodison park is a better place to be, if only it wasn’t in such shit circumstances. 

I’m only talking about the league Steve staying up is the only thing of interest to me this season. Rafa 19 games 19 points GD -9 as I said no where near good enough so not defending him, Lampard 12 games 10 points GD -12 no improvement no better not good enough     

Now I can understand the hatred towards Rafa because of his past, and I can understand why Lampard is getting an easier time from the same people who got what they wanted with  Rafa out, they would look pretty silly wanting what they protested for to be removed, so they’ve reluctantly forced themselves to accept what’s happening, yes Rafa was shit and Lampard is no improvement.

[barryj]

8 hours ago, Palfy said:

What we needed was a manager given a realistic amount of time, and Moshiri to stop interfering on signings. 

Who would you have wanted longer? Big Sam? Rafa? In an ideal world with progression I’d agree but the appointments have been poor with the exception of Carlo. However even this was mad when you see the agreed clause in his contract. Id agree Moshiri has interfered with transfers but also the mangers have bought in overpriced players that aren’t likely to have had moshiri involvement and we havnt got value for money on these eg. Tosun, Walcott, Klaassen, Siggy,  Bolasie 

You can’t keep appointing mangers that are poles apart in how they play. That’s why we have a surplus of players that just don’t work. It’s the square peg, round hole analogy. 

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, barryj said:

Who would you have wanted longer? Big Sam? Rafa? In an ideal world with progression I’d agree but the appointments have been poor with the exception of Carlo. However even this was mad when you see the agreed clause in his contract. Id agree Moshiri has interfered with transfers but also the mangers have bought in overpriced players that aren’t likely to have had moshiri involvement and we havnt got value for money on these eg. Tosun, Walcott, Klaassen, Siggy,  Bolasie 

You can’t keep appointing mangers that are poles apart in how they play. That’s why we have a surplus of players that just don’t work. It’s the square peg, round hole analogy. 

I think you will find I said the same thing, that Moshiri not only had interfered with the signing of players he also chose the managers against the opinions of his DoF. For me this team is Moshiri’s team not just in ownership in everything we see, it’s the play thing of Moshiri and Usmanov to have some fun and try to make a successful team where they made all the decisions, what they have proved is that money doesn’t buy you success when you haven’t got a clue what you’re doing. 

[FairWooney]

The big difference for me is the atmosphere both both from the crowd and what we are seeing from the players under Frank.  I believe there have been some improvements in the game play, we are starting to look better defensively and turning fast counter attacks which was reminiscent of the start of Rafa's season but disappeared after those early weeks.

Frank is showing a passion for the club that comes across very well to fans and players and a great fighting spirit to stick up for them (ie not being scared to highlight unjust decisions!)

He may not have been the perfect choice and with his limited experience especially at the bottom end of the table he was a risk but I would 100% want to see him backed in the new season (wherever we are) to work improving the team and performances with the limited budget that we get. 

He's brought in a good team of staff, has a real desire to win and see us doing better and I think is smart enough to learn from the mistakes that he makes.  He won't let players get away with lazy performances and lack of effort but equally wouldn't shut someone out over a difference of opinion (...Rafa).

This is where the fans have to take some responsibility as continually driving managers out of the club does not help matters and whilst things can be difficult at times I think we need to get behind the manager more some times rather than calling for their head after a few rough games and doing our easy job of arm chair/stands/keyboard management.

[StevO]

11 hours ago, Palfy said:

I’m only talking about the league Steve staying up is the only thing of interest to me this season. Rafa 19 games 19 points GD -9 as I said no where near good enough so not defending him, Lampard 12 games 10 points GD -12 no improvement no better not good enough     

Now I can understand the hatred towards Rafa because of his past, and I can understand why Lampard is getting an easier time from the same people who got what they wanted with  Rafa out, they would look pretty silly wanting what they protested for to be removed, so they’ve reluctantly forced themselves to accept what’s happening, yes Rafa was shit and Lampard is no improvement.

Rafa got 10 of those league points in the first four games, which was ace. But 9 points in the next 15. 
Frank has got 10 points in 12 games. 
So as I said, form improved. Because the form of those first four games of Rafa’s was long gone months before Frank arrived.