Dominic Calvert-Lewin

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

I thought the piece on Chelsea was brilliant analysis by carragher ... It shows how important it is to be brave.  Michael Ball wrote a piece also about how quiet the Everton side was Vs West Ham 

LEADERS 

Without them in a side bollocking people for hiding, for not showing, you get players doing what we've seen so much from in the likes of Gylfi and Gomes.

Southampton last night were superb, even when Liverpool were pushing Southampton kept shape, asked questions of Liverpool and were bold on the ball. 

Till we get rid of that mindset we will always struggle to win anything. 

You say they needed leaders but this is a side with Azpulicueta and Thiago Silva. Add in that Zouma, Mendy and Kante have all been around the block a fair bit. You wouldn't look at that side and think they lacked leaders, at least not in the defensive positions from where those errors that Carragher talked about came from. 

In my opinion its more about decision makers on the ball. The two guys I mentioned first may be shouting and screaming but if the player on the ball makes a bad decision. 

I also don't think good decision makers and leaders are the same thing either. In theory they should be but practically its not often the case. Lots of people on here would call Holgate a leader but I think he is a very average decision maker. 

I also think form and confidence play into it a lot, but thats for another time!

[Btay]

Just now, Bailey said:

You say they needed leaders but this is a side with Azpulicueta and Thiago Silva. Add in that Zouma, Mendy and Kante have all been around the block a fair bit. You wouldn't look at that side and think they lacked leaders, at least not in the defensive positions from where those errors that Carragher talked about came from. 

In my opinion its more about decision makers on the ball. The two guys I mentioned first may be shouting and screaming but if the player on the ball makes a bad decision. 

I also don't think good decision makers and leaders are the same thing either. In theory they should be but practically its not often the case. Lots of people on here would call Holgate a leader but I think he is a very average decision maker. 

I also think form and confidence play into it a lot, but thats for another time!

I think he is referring to us when he is taking about leaders?

[Palfy]

7 hours ago, Bailey said:

I think both Shukes and StevO nail it on the head.

Even when Dom was scoring he wasn't getting loads of chances nor was he heavily involved in the game, however when he got the chance he scored.

Those guilt edged chances have dried up and now he is playing the same way but without the goal threat.

I also think you can get in a bit of a downward spiral. When James, Richarlison and Digne were putting quality balls into the box, he was making run after run because they will find him. When you have Iwobi stopping and starting his runs, no other winger that can beat a man and a centre back at left back it becomes very easy to stop making those runs even if the ball does come in. If he stops making those runs, the people playing the ball hesitate even more and inevitably the ball goes backwards and sideways rather than into the box.

I thought Carragher did an interesting piece on the City/Chelsea game in that he showed how Chelsea's passing out the back went to pot following City's first chance. They lost their bottle, they made poor decisions and conceded one and then another fairly quickly.

You need to look at the positions he was in when he was scoring, he was scoring in front of goal 2-3 yards out, as team we were getting in behind teams and working the ball into the 6 yard box were he was making the runs Carlo wanted him to and he was scoring. 
He is definitely not playing the same way now, he has reverted back to how he used to play, playing more outside the box and wide, we are using him to hit long balls into again hoping he can old them up for people to join him, as a team we have lost the ability to keep possession and work the ball forward by movement and passing until we get into a could position to play him in. 
Against West Ham he was getting zero service hardly got anywhere near their 6 yard box in open play, yet we saw him coming back 15-20 yards into his own half trying to get the ball to make something happen because he was frustrated with his lack of involvement and service. 
So for me the team are playing more defensively with less expansive football which has affected the way he’s playing and the area’s he was able to get into when he was scoring. 
He’s still working hard but not where he should be in and around the 6 yard box. 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

You say they needed leaders but this is a side with Azpulicueta and Thiago Silva. Add in that Zouma, Mendy and Kante have all been around the block a fair bit. You wouldn't look at that side and think they lacked leaders, at least not in the defensive positions from where those errors that Carragher talked about came from. 

In my opinion its more about decision makers on the ball. The two guys I mentioned first may be shouting and screaming but if the player on the ball makes a bad decision. 

I also don't think good decision makers and leaders are the same thing either. In theory they should be but practically its not often the case. Lots of people on here would call Holgate a leader but I think he is a very average decision maker. 

I also think form and confidence play into it a lot, but thats for another time!

No I disagree, what carragher demonstrated was similar to a boxer who gets caught with a stiff straight punch and stops throwing punches cos he's afraid to get knocked out.

You can throw names as much as you like but the England golden generation was full of supposed leaders who didn't want to upset eachother,  they weren't close enough to bollock eachother like some sort of hierarchical respect.  Chelsea look exactly the same.  

[Bailey]

 

16 hours ago, Palfy said:

You need to look at the positions he was in when he was scoring, he was scoring in front of goal 2-3 yards out, as team we were getting in behind teams and working the ball into the 6 yard box were he was making the runs Carlo wanted him to and he was scoring. 
He is definitely not playing the same way now, he has reverted back to how he used to play, playing more outside the box and wide, we are using him to hit long balls into again hoping he can old them up for people to join him, as a team we have lost the ability to keep possession and work the ball forward by movement and passing until we get into a could position to play him in. 
Against West Ham he was getting zero service hardly got anywhere near their 6 yard box in open play, yet we saw him coming back 15-20 yards into his own half trying to get the ball to make something happen because he was frustrated with his lack of involvement and service. 
So for me the team are playing more defensively with less expansive football which has affected the way he’s playing and the area’s he was able to get into when he was scoring. 
He’s still working hard but not where he should be in and around the 6 yard box. 

I agree that he has changed his style of play. Dom has to be careful about what he does as well though. When he comes deep he doesn't do anything with the ball, he just lays it off backwards or sideways and we get no further and we ultimately end up with a striker in midfield. It's not like he is Harry Kane who has the vision and technique to make things happen from deep. Its the type of movement that doesn't help anyone.

Like you say it happened a lot in the West Ham game. There was quite often a huge space between the defence and midfield. Everyone was pushed forward as they should but there was no presence in the middle. It was part of the reason I found Davies' performance so frustrating because he kept dropping back into the back 4 instead of driving into that space. Even if he didn't get the ball, he would have taken a player with him and given more space to the rest.

16 hours ago, Hafnia said:

No I disagree, what carragher demonstrated was similar to a boxer who gets caught with a stiff straight punch and stops throwing punches cos he's afraid to get knocked out.

You can throw names as much as you like but the England golden generation was full of supposed leaders who didn't want to upset eachother,  they weren't close enough to bollock eachother like some sort of hierarchical respect.  Chelsea look exactly the same.  

So does that mean you don't think Azpilicueta and Silva are leaders?

Out of interest, who would you consider a leader in the Premier League?

[Hafnia]

7 hours ago, Bailey said:

 

I agree that he has changed his style of play. Dom has to be careful about what he does as well though. When he comes deep he doesn't do anything with the ball, he just lays it off backwards or sideways and we get no further and we ultimately end up with a striker in midfield. It's not like he is Harry Kane who has the vision and technique to make things happen from deep. Its the type of movement that doesn't help anyone.

Like you say it happened a lot in the West Ham game. There was quite often a huge space between the defence and midfield. Everyone was pushed forward as they should but there was no presence in the middle. It was part of the reason I found Davies' performance so frustrating because he kept dropping back into the back 4 instead of driving into that space. Even if he didn't get the ball, he would have taken a player with him and given more space to the rest.

So does that mean you don't think Azpilicueta and Silva are leaders?

Out of interest, who would you consider a leader in the Premier League?

Real leaders?  Very few and far between, loads of players look the part and are in themselves good players and manage the game well etc.

Far too many players who are afraid of upsetting the applecart who take part in some sort of hierarchical clique.

The England camp was a pure example of this.... Do you think Gerrard, Terry or Ferdinand led in the national side the way they did for their clubs? No.  It's a great example as they were focused on their own clubs and if we seen Gerrard fight and lead for England the way he did for Liverpool and the same with Terry we would have won things 

This is the state of the prem,players from opposite sides losing a game and having a good old friendly chat seconds after the whistle blows. 

I don't see leaders in the Chelsea side, the only player I see with the grit and balls to rally players is Reece James.

For us? Ben Godfrey. 

[Bailey]

16 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Real leaders?  Very few and far between, loads of players look the part and are in themselves good players and manage the game well etc.

Far too many players who are afraid of upsetting the applecart who take part in some sort of hierarchical clique.

The England camp was a pure example of this.... Do you think Gerrard, Terry or Ferdinand led in the national side the way they did for their clubs? No.  It's a great example as they were focused on their own clubs and if we seen Gerrard fight and lead for England the way he did for Liverpool and the same with Terry we would have won things 

This is the state of the prem,players from opposite sides losing a game and having a good old friendly chat seconds after the whistle blows. 

I don't see leaders in the Chelsea side, the only player I see with the grit and balls to rally players is Reece James.

For us? Ben Godfrey. 

They are very few and far in between. I was thinking about this myself and I was struggling. The best example I have seen in the last two games is Ruben Dias for City. He has led by example and rallied everyone together as well. It hasn't stopped him making a silly decision here or there though.

I don't get the friendly chats before and after the game. It bugs me when you (used) to see them in the tunnel shaking hands and having a laugh. They used to say the crazy gang used to intimidate teams in the tunnel so that they were half beaten before the game started. You can't imagine that now!

[Hafnia]

15 minutes ago, Bailey said:

They are very few and far in between. I was thinking about this myself and I was struggling. The best example I have seen in the last two games is Ruben Dias for City. He has led by example and rallied everyone together as well. It hasn't stopped him making a silly decision here or there though.

I don't get the friendly chats before and after the game. It bugs me when you (used) to see them in the tunnel shaking hands and having a laugh. They used to say the crazy gang used to intimidate teams in the tunnel so that they were half beaten before the game started. You can't imagine that now!

It's horrible isn't it.  Phil Neville went up in my estimation when he crunched Ronaldo.....they all wanted to see him be subservient to them as an ex player, he was also instrumental in us beating them at old Trafford in the 4-3 game. 

Was never my favourite player but he knew what was expected

[Btay]

16 hours ago, Hafnia said:

It's horrible isn't it.  Phil Neville went up in my estimation when he crunched Ronaldo.....they all wanted to see him be subservient to them as an ex player, he was also instrumental in us beating them at old Trafford in the 4-3 game. 

Was never my favourite player but he knew what was expected

Average player but great leader in my opinion.

[Romey 1878]

19 hours ago, Bailey said:

I don't get the friendly chats before and after the game. It bugs me when you (used) to see them in the tunnel shaking hands and having a laugh. They used to say the crazy gang used to intimidate teams in the tunnel so that they were half beaten before the game started. You can't imagine that now!

Loved it before we played United once and both Neville's were captains that day (I think) and they completely ignored each other and acted like they hated each other.

[StevO]

21 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Loved it before we played United once and both Neville's were captains that day (I think) and they completely ignored each other and acted like they hated each other.

Both of them were great captains. Not many like that around now. 
 

I don’t mind when everyone is friendly after the final whistle, but before that? Not for me. 

[Hafnia]

28 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Loved it before we played United once and both Neville's were captains that day (I think) and they completely ignored each other and acted like they hated each other.

Phil Neville said that a United player in the 4-3 game said "now tell your team to calm down will you' ... after United had just gone a goal in front after us giving them a torrid time.

Fair play to Neville, he played out of his skin cos it pissed him off. 

That's leadership. 

 

[Shukes]

No I think all players should show respect to each before a match. Keane and Vierra were great friends off the pitch.... and it showed on the pitch with their amazing sportsmanship.

Golden age of the premier league right there. Exciting, adrenaline pumping, hearts on their sleeves.

[MikeO]

20 hours ago, Hafnia said:

It's horrible isn't it.  Phil Neville went up in my estimation when he crunched Ronaldo.....they all wanted to see him be subservient to them as an ex player, he was also instrumental in us beating them at old Trafford in the 4-3 game. 

Was never my favourite player but he knew what was expected

We never beat them 4-3 at OT. Are you thinking of the 4-4 draw?

[Hafnia]

8 hours ago, MikeO said:

We never beat them 4-3 at OT. Are you thinking of the 4-4 draw?

Of course it was 4-4.... I recall feeling like we won it.  Didn't something happen at the end and we could/should have won it? 

[MikeO]

2 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Of course it was 4-4.... I recall feeling like we won it.  Didn't something happen at the end and we could/should have won it? 

No in that one Rio Ferdinand nearly won it for them at the end, great save from Howard; you're thinking about the 3-3 at Goodison when we got two late goals then Martin Atkinson blew the final whistle when we were breaking at speed, Moyes was furious.

[Btay]

5 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Of course it was 4-4.... I recall feeling like we won it.  Didn't something happen at the end and we could/should have won it? 

Believe we were on the break with a 3 v 2 and the ref called full time with us right on their 18 yard line.

[Btay]

Just now, MikeO said:

No in that one Rio Ferdinand nearly won it for them at the end, great save from Howard; you're thinking about the 3-3 at Goodison when we got two late goals then Martin Atkinson blew the final whistle when we were breaking at speed, Moyes was furious.

God you have some memory!!

We have had a few good games against them

[MikeO]

Just now, Btay said:

God you have some memory!!

We have had a few good games against them

For stuff that happened a while back, don't ask me about the last five seasons, short term is shot

[Btay]

10 minutes ago, MikeO said:

For stuff that happened a while back, don't ask me about the last five seasons, short term is shot

Impressive though mate! Funny how some things just stick in the memory bank!

[Matt]

14 hours ago, MikeO said:

For stuff that happened a while back, don't ask me about the last five seasons, short term is shot

Lucky you...

[c1982]

19 hours ago, MikeO said:

No in that one Rio Ferdinand nearly won it for them at the end, great save from Howard; you're thinking about the 3-3 at Goodison when we got two late goals then Martin Atkinson blew the final whistle when we were breaking at speed, Moyes was furious.

Jagielka was running through on goal as I was running down Queen’s Drive back to my mate’s car (his and another’s decision to leave at 1-3)... never forgiven them for that one!

[Cornish Steve]

Do we have any inkling as to how much longer he'll be out with this hamstring injury?

[StevO]

Not seen anything reported. Hopefully he just missed the cup game and is back for Leicester. 

[Bailey]

Back and in training, ready for Sheffield

[Cisk]

Whats going on with Dom's socks around his calfs? Noticed a few times now he slits his socks - some bizarre ritual?

 

 

[Wiggytop]

It’s to reduce cramping, Kyle Walker started it a couple of years ago, or it could be just a fashion statement like ripped jeans ?

[FairWooney]

calfs too big for his socks?! 

[Shukes]

Dom has stopped his high line. We can blame the team for not putting the ball into the right places, but Dom needs to force the issue himself as well. 
He needs to push into the area as soon as we’re charging down the flanks. Players will hit the ball into the ruck always.

Its like shooting at the keeper, it’s natural for your mind to follow movement. Your brain adjusts to it, and that’s why so many shots get hit into a goalkeepers path.

[pete0]